This Industry is Fucked • Hacker News Board

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#271

Post by bsder » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 10:00 PM UTC

ajsharp wrote: post #207

__z wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think she didn't call the police? http://www.psmag.com/health-and-behavior/women-arent-welcome... "Two hours later, a Palm Springs police officer lumbered up the steps to my hotel room, paused on the outdoor threshold, and began questioning me in a steady clip. I wheeled through the relevant background information: I am a journalist; I live in Los Angeles; sometimes, people don’t like what I write abou…

Glad you posted this. They mentioned this incident in a segment they did on Last Week Tonight. The police are completely ill-equipped to deal with online harassment, even if they could determine the identity of the attacker, which they likely rarely can.

Most harassers really aren't that clever at hiding their tracks. Someone that smart is probably doing something more productive with their life.

It's likely a simple request from the police for identity is probably going to cough up the idiot.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#272

Post by dummy7953 » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 10:13 PM UTC

corysama wrote: post #31

nightcracker wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This absolutely needs police action. Regardless of what your stance is on unwanted sexual attention, sending death threats is not acceptable.

Agreed. What Jessie is dealing with is classic internet trolls. They don't give a damn about "Women in Tech", her or anything else. All that interests them is finding a target to dig a reaction out of "for the lulz". They do it because it gives them little endorphin pops to think about how upset their victim must be and because it's very low risk. That's all there is to it. If there was any perception of risk in thei…

They're (the trolls) are the kind of people who think "better to be hated by someone, than to be ignored by everyone."

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#273

Post by daveloyall » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

I have read a small percentage of the comments on this page.

I conclude that some of the "blame" conversation is rooted in guilt.

In the history of this messy topic, some of you have only posted one mean comment. Maybe you even found and posted some content for dox.

Now, you're finally realizing that this shit is real. Hell, you're older now.

And you're panicking. You are refusing to believe that you have been part of a big, nasty problem.

Well, knock it off. Pull yourself together!

Nobody is perfect and none of us truly know what we are doing. Nobody is even going to ask you to apologize.

But we WILL and ARE asking you to stop resisting. Stop defending, stop making excuses, and stop passing the buck.

Just fall in line, again.

It's not OVER just because you have seen the light. There's still actual monsters out there. Fall in, there's work to do.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#274

Post by throwawayihz » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 11:03 PM UTC

anthonyb wrote: post #266

chroma wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly advise against backing OAPI. The CEO & founder is Randi Harper. Her online persona is quite hostile, and she is often the instigator of online harassment. One of my acquaintances was the target of her ire. Her e-mails and call-outs eventually caused him to seek psychiatric help, including medication. So while I support the goal of OAPI, I think the founding members have attitudes that hurt the cause…

See points 2 and 5 above: you're part of the problem. In addition, labelling Randi as a "harasser" is a common gamergate tactic.

How else would you characterize somebody who doxxes people? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI3Z7hwUcAAZs3r.png

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#275

Post by throwawayihz » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 11:04 PM UTC

purp wrote: post #221

shoeluckpotland wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so you know, the OAPI is run by Randi Harper, who herself has harassed many people. Most notably Vivek Wadhwa and Claire Schumann, but there are more names on that list. I wish you luck in tracking down the guilty parties. Threats are not okay, no matter who makes them.

I'm not a particular follower of Randi's and still couldn't help but see the Vivek stuff going on. I wouldn't have labeled it harassment; what I saw was a loud and unrelenting public call for accountability. I don't believe she threatened, doxxed, or otherwise harassed him. Do you know differently? What I would call harassment is that Randi was doxxed as well as swatted, seemingly by the same sort of folks involved i…

Is she standing up for her rights here too by doxxing the CEO of a debt collection agency? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI3Z7hwUcAAZs3r.png

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#276

Post by throwawayihz » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 11:05 PM UTC

cjbprime wrote: post #109

bsder wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time I see posts like this, I see people commenting on it with varying statement to the effect of "that's a shame, but most people in tech aren't like that", or "I'm so tired of seeing posts like this, quit making a fuss." I'm tired of people whining in a blog post instead of calling the police. Death threats and violence threats like this are unacceptable. CALL THE POLICE. After a couple of high-profile case…

> Death threats and violence threats like this are unacceptable. CALL THE POLICE. After a couple of high-profile cases put these kinds of assholes in jail it will stop. What evidence do you have that the police will do something? We could look at people like Brianna Wu and Anita Sarkeesian, who I feel confident we'll agree have experienced massive and credible death threats. They report the threats they get to the po…

Maybe the fact that nobody went to jail for those threats means they weren't as credible as you seem to think.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#277

Post by TTPrograms » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 11:13 PM UTC

daveloyall wrote: post #265

TTPrograms wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nobody is blaming you. >The Industry Is Fucked. That's my industry that's fucked. Not some random people on the internet, not some assholes in a convention. The statement is that the entire industry that I participate in, interact with and identify with is fucked.

Nobody is blaming you. They are asking you to take responsibility for your professional community. Will you?

You really need to rephrase, because the way I read this statement is contradictory:

Responsibility: the state of being the person who caused something to happen.

Blame: to say or think that a person or thing is responsible for something bad that has happened.

I think what you want to say is that we're asking people to stand against this sort of abuse, which seems to be happening to the extent possible. If you have suggestions for further steps to stop this sort of thing I think everyone is all ears, but the language you're using suggests random programmers and sysadmins should write long blog posts taking responsibility for negative acts of which they had no part and are against. That seems both pointless and somewhat insulting.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#278

Post by AnimalMuppet » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 11:22 PM UTC

daveloyall wrote: post #265

TTPrograms wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nobody is blaming you. >The Industry Is Fucked. That's my industry that's fucked. Not some random people on the internet, not some assholes in a convention. The statement is that the entire industry that I participate in, interact with and identify with is fucked.

Nobody is blaming you. They are asking you to take responsibility for your professional community. Will you?

Here's the thing: accountability/responsibility must match control.

Can I stop all this? No. I'd like to, but I can't. Then there is no realistic way that I can take responsibility for it.

Can I call out whatever I see? Sure can. That I'm responsible for.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#279

Post by AnimalMuppet » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 11:31 PM UTC

daveloyall wrote: post #273

I have read a small percentage of the comments on this page. I conclude that some of the "blame" conversation is rooted in guilt. In the history of this messy topic, some of you have only posted one mean comment. Maybe you even found and posted some content for dox. Now, you're finally realizing that this shit is real. Hell, you're older now. And you're panicking. You are refusing to believe that you have been part o…

I've been a jerk, to women, at work, a few times. Never sexual harassment, though.

And I'm trying to never do it again. And if I see someone else do it, I hope I'll call them on it.

Re: This Industry is Fucked

#280

Post by tptacek » Mon, Jul 06, 2015, 11:43 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #268

tptacek wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you assume that most threats are empty. Are people who mail you rape threats actually going to rape you? Probably not. Are people who are unhinged enough to send a rape threat capable of harming you in other significant ways? Yes, they are.

To be clear, what I mean by "empty" is that the harm will be from the effects of receiving the message. The message is not a warning of an upcoming attack--it itself is the attack. I assume this because I haven't seen any stats showing otherwise, and so I'm assuming that those making these threats are similar to those who make similar threats against athletes and entertainers, which we have more experience with. The…

No, you've missed my point. I'm saying that your analysis is fixated on the idea that e.g. a rape threat predicts a rape. I'm saying, "sure, maybe you're right", and rape threats really don't predict rapes. But they probably do predict other threats: career damage, reputation damage from forged posts, online breakin attempts, &c.