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SteamMachines

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Re: SteamMachines

#271

Post by knowaveragejoe »

TylerE wrote: post #164
meowface wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it'll ever become mandatory, but don't you think that VR and deeper immersion is eventually where gaming is going to go? The technology still needs a lot of time to improve, but if the kinks can get worked out and if they're less likely to make people dizzy/nauseated, I imagine VR headsets will dominate the market in the next few decades.

Frankly, no, I don't. The immersion is more than canceled out by the additional hassle, not to mention that many people (including myself) that this sort of 3D either doesn't work for or causes intense motion sickness.

If your only experience is with the developer kit then you're not really equipped to make a judgement on it. Motion sickness is caused by a combination of the demo in question and the fact that the screen is pretty low quality.

Also, I'm not sure how this sort of 3D can't work for someone unless you're either blind in one eye or have some sort of issue with stereoscopic vision in general. Sounds like a configuration issue.

Re: SteamMachines

#272

Post by bluepnume »

smithzvk wrote: post #247
bluepnume wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Velocity is a vector.

Sorry, busy today and didn't see this. Velocity is a vector, but so is position, and direction, and a whole bunch of things. Anything you can express as a fixed length, ordered, group of numbers is a vector (I guess they don't even have to be numbers). The point is that the distinguishing thing here is not the vectoral nature, but the fact that the mouse directly modifies the absolute 'direction vector' while a joyst…

Oh, OK, I take your point. Fair enough!

Re: SteamMachines

#273

Post by Steko »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #243
Steko wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" The PS3 does ~400GFLOPS; the XBox 360 somewhere around 300." I'm showing the PS3 at 230 (various Google) and the X360 at 240 (wikipedia Xenos). Regardless the Ouya at 12 is not in the same ballpark. To say the hypothetical Apple system is Ouya quality and not PS3/360 console quality is simply wrong. "console killer" is going to have to compete with...well, current consoles (and now, Steamboxen) ... actually going h…

Just curious, but what's more compelling about Apple's ecosystem than Sony's, Microsoft's, or Steam's? The PS4 is strongly targeting indies, Microsoft already has, and Steam is more than anyone. Steam already has a ton of traction, and now they're making it possible to roll your own console, in addition to future hardware. Why would I, as either a developer or a player, bet on Apple, when they have a reputation for b…

"what's more compelling about Apple's ecosystem than Sony's, Microsoft's, or Steam's?"

You might say the same thing about mobile games and the 3DS and PSP/Vita. What was more compelling about Apple's ecosystem than Sony's or Nintendo's?

(1) there were a lot more devices shipped.

(2) they have a lot of credit card numbers on file

(3) relatively fewer restrictions.

"more closed and oppressive than the others"

Right because it's super easy to get your games on XBL, Steam, PSN. These companies are all changing their policies because Apple took all the mindshare of the industry 5 years ago with the extremely dev friendly app store (you know, the one that you're calling 'oppressive').

"take a bigger cut of my (developer) revenue"

Uninformed. Steam takes the same 30% as Apple, Google it. MS charged devs tens of thousands of dollars to patch a game on XBL. Neither MS nor Sony has released the cut they're planning to take with PS4/Xbone.

"and charge me more for hardware (as a player)?"

That doesn't even make sense. The whole premise here is that the hardware would be less powerful and much cheaper than the new consoles being released.

"there's still alot more money to be made from console/PC sales"

That's not really under debate, what's at issue is which platform(s) will we see the money being made on. Just like in the home console market, there is lots of money still being made in mobile gaming; in fact more than ever. But that money simply isn't going to Nintendo and Sony the way it did 10 years ago.

Re: SteamMachines

#274

Post by TylerE »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #271
TylerE wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, no, I don't. The immersion is more than canceled out by the additional hassle, not to mention that many people (including myself) that this sort of 3D either doesn't work for or causes intense motion sickness.

If your only experience is with the developer kit then you're not really equipped to make a judgement on it. Motion sickness is caused by a combination of the demo in question and the fact that the screen is pretty low quality. Also, I'm not sure how this sort of 3D can't work for someone unless you're either blind in one eye or have some sort of issue with stereoscopic vision in general. Sounds like a configuration…

I do have issues with stereoscopic vision. My right eye is about 20/25, and my left 20/40.

Re: SteamMachines

#275

Post by chromaton »

Arjuna wrote: post #60
breckinloggins wrote: post #22

I'm excited about where Valve is going with this, of course, but to be honest I'm concerned about controllers the most. Buying a good controller for a PC is not hard, but it's not simple either. Picture yourself as a "living room console guy" getting into PC gaming. You'd like to use a controller for a certain game. Consider: - You can use your XBox360, PS3 controller, or WiiMote, but that's not obvious. You'll need…

I believe that you will find this interesting... https://www.google.com/patents/US8241126 Video game controller having user swappable control components Original Assignee: Valve Corporation Abstract: A game controller is provided. One or more main control input interfaces on the game controller consist of generalized sockets. A variety of modular input interfaces can be plugged into these sockets. Hardware specific t…

BenHeck had invented this as far back as 2007, 2 years before this patent was filed.

Re: SteamMachines

#276

Post by makomk »

CrazedGeek wrote: post #83
fsckin wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sony and Nintendo use Bluetooth, while Microsoft uses a proprietary wireless protocol.

Nintendo uses a proprietary connection for the Wii U GamePad as well.

I think they're actually using a variant of 802.11n on the 5 GHz band for the Wii U GamePad, probably because it's the cheapest option that has enough bandwidth.

Re: SteamMachines

#277

Post by Steko »

cheald wrote: post #242
Steko wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" The PS3 does ~400GFLOPS; the XBox 360 somewhere around 300." I'm showing the PS3 at 230 (various Google) and the X360 at 240 (wikipedia Xenos). Regardless the Ouya at 12 is not in the same ballpark. To say the hypothetical Apple system is Ouya quality and not PS3/360 console quality is simply wrong. "console killer" is going to have to compete with...well, current consoles (and now, Steamboxen) ... actually going h…

My point with the Ouya remark is that the Ouya is an ARM machine, which runs ARM software. Nobody makes ARM games except mobile developers. The Wii, PS3 and 360 were PPC architectures; the PS4 and Xbone are x86-64 architectures (the Wii U, interestingly, is still PPC, but there seems to be far less of an emphasis for the Wii on capturing third-party AAA titles than there are for other platforms.). The raw power is a…

I think the main difference between our views is that you're assuming our hypothetical idevice wins or loses based on whether it gets game developers while I'm assuming it won't even be marketed as a game machine but the developers will move there because that's where the most customers will be. A dedicated $400-$500 gaming machines can die from a lack of third party games. A $130 converged set top box that people buy for netflix doesn't.

People love to watch netflix on their PS3 but at the end of the day nobody drops $300 on a PS3 to watch netflix. Plenty of people buy Apple boxes just so they can watch netflix. That's the difference the price point makes. When there were 30 million 3DS's and 100 million ipod touches people stopped making games for the 3DS.

...

"Nobody makes ARM games except mobile developers."

What developer isn't in mobile today? This is like saying no one knows how to code for ARM except for everyone.

"consoles live and die on their triple-A titles. Your GTAs, Halos, Marios, and Call of Duties are what sell consoles, not cheap hardware."

I would say that is misreading the biggest lesson of the current generation which saw the Wii dominate it's first 3-4 years based on (1) the cheap hardware and (2) Wii Sports, a new title. To some extent AAA titles will go where the users are.

Re: SteamMachines

#278

Post by webjprgm »

simias wrote: post #52
breckinloggins wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true, but remember that the issue I'm addressing is more about branding and marketing than about the tech. For example: "Wait, you mean I have to buy an XBox 360 controller to use my Steam Machine?" Well, no, but it's better that way. "What do you mean, isn't there a Steam Controller." Not exactly, you see any Steam Machine is compatible with any number of controllers. "So why can't I buy this other controller I…

Oh, that makes sense. But I simply assumed that the SteamBoxes (the official ones made by Valve that is) will come bundled with a controller. We just have to hope it'll be a good one (unlike the Ouya...).

Why is the Ouya's bad? It doesn't look as comfortable as an Xbox controller, but I haven't held one.

I like the idea of a touch pad for configurable interface elements. That's what I first thought of when the Valve modularity patent was mentioned. Has anyone played a game on Ouya that made good use of that touchpad?

Or am I mistaking and it's not both a touch screen and touch pad, just more of a trackpad-like input device?

Re: SteamMachines

#279

Post by timdiggerm »

gknoy wrote: post #205
sejje wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just, you know, have your kids obey the rules. Without your daily intervention.

Ah, I want to live in this magical fictional world too. (:

Yes, how did parents control console use before OS-level time controls? The problem seems intractable.

Re: SteamMachines

#280

Post by webjprgm »

vignesh_vs_in wrote: post #54
simias wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might have been true in the past (I remember having some trouble with a SideWinder controller on a dedicated control port in the 90's) but these days the 360 wired USB controllers are as plug'n'play as it gets (on windows at least). It Just Works. PS3 controllers are a pity though, you need those shady ad-ridden closed source third party drivers.

XBox wired controller works well with mac as well thanks to the open source driver ( http://tattiebogle.net/index.php/ProjectRoot/Xbox360Controll... ). I have never faced any issue using the controller to play steam games on my mac.

A couple years ago I bought a Logitech gamepad that happened to use Xbox protocol (I didn't read the label well enough, I just saw the name brand). I tried to use this Xbox360Controller driver but it didn't recognize my gamepad. So, I fixed the driver to work.

When Mountain Lion came out I had to update the driver, which had undergone some 32bit -> 64bit change but also added in some other garbage about Xbox chat pads that was breaking when I tried to use it with my Logitech game pad. I don't remember if it kernel panicked or just didn't work. Certainly I caused a kernel panic or two while tinkering with the driver. But I got it working again, mostly by commenting out stuff I didn't want.

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