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SteamMachines

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Re: SteamMachines

#241

Post by bphogan »

krackpot wrote: post #238
cheald wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use my Xbox 360 controllers with a no-name wireless receiver. It took some work to get the drivers working properly, but it's fantastic now. If Valve can provide a similar experience, except all plug-and-play, that'll be killer. I totally agree that it's non-obvious to most of the gaming market, though.

Can you share where you got your no-name wireless receiver?

I got mine on Amazon. Believe it or not, it worked first try and it turned out to be a Microsoft one. Drivers were not an issue once I figured out that some of my USB ports were powered and others were not - it needs a lot of power to work.

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Wireless-Gaming-Receiver-Wind...

Re: SteamMachines

#242

Post by cheald »

Steko wrote: post #236
cheald wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going to talk about GPUs , my ancient Radeon 5770 does 520 GFLOPS all by its lonesome. The PS3 does ~400GFLOPS; the XBox 360 somewhere around 300. Getting all the way up to 250 puts you at somewhere between the Wii and the XBox 360, right when the XBox One and PS4 are due to start shipping. Modern discrete gaming GPUs do 2-3 TFLOPS. ARM is notable for its power usage, not its performance profile, and in wall…

" The PS3 does ~400GFLOPS; the XBox 360 somewhere around 300." I'm showing the PS3 at 230 (various Google) and the X360 at 240 (wikipedia Xenos). Regardless the Ouya at 12 is not in the same ballpark. To say the hypothetical Apple system is Ouya quality and not PS3/360 console quality is simply wrong. "console killer" is going to have to compete with...well, current consoles (and now, Steamboxen) ... actually going h…

My point with the Ouya remark is that the Ouya is an ARM machine, which runs ARM software. Nobody makes ARM games except mobile developers. The Wii, PS3 and 360 were PPC architectures; the PS4 and Xbone are x86-64 architectures (the Wii U, interestingly, is still PPC, but there seems to be far less of an emphasis for the Wii on capturing third-party AAA titles than there are for other platforms.). The raw power is a secondary concern to the fact that the utter lack of developers making non-mobile ARM games. An A7 system would probably easily capitalize on iOS games, and could have some PS3/360 games ported to it, but the library runs a little thin past that. Apple would have to get developers to port their titles to an underpowered system using a different instruction set that doesn't have a proven sales model for their class of product and which would involve entering into contracts with a company that is famously hostile to developers.

Regarding undermining the console business model, consoles live and die on their triple-A titles. Your GTAs, Halos, Marios, and Call of Duties are what sell consoles, not cheap hardware.

Footnote: Regarding the gigaflops numbers, I got them from here - I admittedly didn't do the math. I kind of suspect it's a combined CPU + GPU number in light of your numbers: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156273-xbox-720-vs-ps4-vs-...

Re: SteamMachines

#243

Post by Mikeb85 »

Steko wrote: post #236
cheald wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going to talk about GPUs , my ancient Radeon 5770 does 520 GFLOPS all by its lonesome. The PS3 does ~400GFLOPS; the XBox 360 somewhere around 300. Getting all the way up to 250 puts you at somewhere between the Wii and the XBox 360, right when the XBox One and PS4 are due to start shipping. Modern discrete gaming GPUs do 2-3 TFLOPS. ARM is notable for its power usage, not its performance profile, and in wall…

" The PS3 does ~400GFLOPS; the XBox 360 somewhere around 300." I'm showing the PS3 at 230 (various Google) and the X360 at 240 (wikipedia Xenos). Regardless the Ouya at 12 is not in the same ballpark. To say the hypothetical Apple system is Ouya quality and not PS3/360 console quality is simply wrong. "console killer" is going to have to compete with...well, current consoles (and now, Steamboxen) ... actually going h…

Just curious, but what's more compelling about Apple's ecosystem than Sony's, Microsoft's, or Steam's?

The PS4 is strongly targeting indies, Microsoft already has, and Steam is more than anyone. Steam already has a ton of traction, and now they're making it possible to roll your own console, in addition to future hardware.

Why would I, as either a developer or a player, bet on Apple, when they have a reputation for being even more closed and oppressive than the others, take a bigger cut of my (developer) revenue, and charge me more for hardware (as a player)?

While mobile may be taking alot of sales from the casual gamer, I reckon there's still alot more money to be made from console/PC sales (how much is GTA 5 up to? over a billion last I checked).

Re: SteamMachines

#244

Post by cheald »

krackpot wrote: post #238
cheald wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use my Xbox 360 controllers with a no-name wireless receiver. It took some work to get the drivers working properly, but it's fantastic now. If Valve can provide a similar experience, except all plug-and-play, that'll be killer. I totally agree that it's non-obvious to most of the gaming market, though.

Can you share where you got your no-name wireless receiver?

It was Amazon - this one specifically:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0096PLB9O/ref=oh_details_o...

To get it working, you need to install the Microsoft Wireless XBox 360 Controller drivers manually, then go to the hardware manager and manually specify the official Microsoft driver as the driver for this device. Easy enough if you know your way around driver updates, but not plug-and-play. It works great, though.

Re: SteamMachines

#245

Post by z3phyr »

Android chose Java as its programming language of choice. What kind of APIs and programming language will SteamBox use? What is the probability that it will be C++ (C++11)?

Re: SteamMachines

#246

Post by mheathr »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #229
mheathr wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about the ones advertises for PC or the ones not sold for PC? When I bought mine (circa 2010) I had to purchase one advertises for PC as the one I had for the 360 before would not work with it otherwise. It seemed nonsensical to me that such was the case.

I'm talking about this product here: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/xbox-360-wireless-... Though mine was in white. From the page. "Xbox 360 Controller for Windows works with most Windows XP-based PCs and Xbox 360, delivering a consistent and universal gaming experience." It comes with a wireless dongle thing you plug in to your PC. Both the controllers that come with your 360 and this controller can be sw…

There actually exists two separate Microsoft Wireless 360 controllers, the one that specifies for Windows will work on both the PC and for the Xbox 360 (after syncing the controller with the appropriate receiver, something which is somewhat tricky if the PC receiver and the console receiver are within the controller's wireless range).

However, the one which does not specify "...for Windows" will not work with the PC, which is the distinction I am attempting to express when recommending it as an option for PC gaming.

On (US) Amazon the two separate listings are http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Xbox-Wireless-Controller-Win... and http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Wireless-Controller-Glossy-Bl...

The PS3 controllers may work differently, but I do not find them as comfortable to use as the 360 controllers personally.

Re: SteamMachines

#247

Post by smithzvk »

bluepnume wrote: post #220
smithzvk wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point, but I think you don't mean to say vector, but something more like 'velocity', 'momentum', or better yet, joysticks are meant to control a rate of change.

Velocity is a vector.

Sorry, busy today and didn't see this. Velocity is a vector, but so is position, and direction, and a whole bunch of things. Anything you can express as a fixed length, ordered, group of numbers is a vector (I guess they don't even have to be numbers). The point is that the distinguishing thing here is not the vectoral nature, but the fact that the mouse directly modifies the absolute 'direction vector' while a joystick directly modifies the rate of change of that 'direction vector'.

Re: SteamMachines

#248

Post by locusm »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #145
devx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see Valve have the "defacto OS/console" for Oculus Rift. Oculus Rift will enable truly "next-gen" gaming, and Valve would be very smart to ride that trend , and grow with it.

I would hope not, actually. Many people are nowhere near hardcore enough to spend the money and time for Virtual Reality Gaming over regular gaming.

OK Debbie Downer, what evidence is that based on? Even when I've shown non gamers the general impression is very positive...

Re: SteamMachines

#249

Post by bastards »

I am not trying to be a downer, but I think this is going to be a huge flop.

Gaming appliances need to be focused at the gaming market, which Sony and MS own like the U.S. and USSR in the mid to late 20th century. Nintendo messed up with the Wii U and probably won't recover, and everything else is secondary, for now. I even think Apple's move into the TV gaming market will be mostly a bust, but I could be wrong, because the casual game market is strong.

I've personally not bought a single game from Steam. I know they are big, but I just don't have time for it. I'm not the target market though.

Re: SteamMachines

#250

Post by Negitivefrags »

mheathr wrote: post #246
Negitivefrags wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about this product here: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/xbox-360-wireless-... Though mine was in white. From the page. "Xbox 360 Controller for Windows works with most Windows XP-based PCs and Xbox 360, delivering a consistent and universal gaming experience." It comes with a wireless dongle thing you plug in to your PC. Both the controllers that come with your 360 and this controller can be sw…

There actually exists two separate Microsoft Wireless 360 controllers, the one that specifies for Windows will work on both the PC and for the Xbox 360 (after syncing the controller with the appropriate receiver, something which is somewhat tricky if the PC receiver and the console receiver are within the controller's wireless range). However, the one which does not specify "...for Windows" will not work with the PC,…

The "For windows" version is simply bundled with the wireless receiver. Once you have one of those, you can use any 360 controller.

I regularly use both the controller that came with my 360, and another 360 controller that I brought separately (with no "for windows" marking) in addition the controller that came with the wireless receiver.

I assure you that all 3 are identical.

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