Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks • Hacker News Board

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#271

Post by carbocation » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 1:31 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #220

carbocation wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be thinking of BUN. For creatinine, there is peer-reviewed data demonstrating that in people without renal disease, increasing the protein in your diet tends to improve your eGFR, not decrease it (which is what happened here). So for him, it either fluctuated or was a marker of true kidney disease, but in any case this is not just a marker of adequate protein intake.

Neither. I'm talking of creatinine levels in the blood, and my doctor was also very clear on that, and that it wasn't normally a concern at the levels she would expect to see from protein supplementation, but if it was too high, she'd need to establish filtration rate to rule out renal problems. Also, while you may very well be right that GFR would improve, the little bits of reading I've had time to do indicates tha…

The definition of eGFR is generally done from a random serum measurement (if you measure it in the classical but rarely done fashion, then you don't have to call it an estimate).

Also, creatinine is measured in serum to estimate gfr. Urine creatinine is more used as part of a test to look for nephrotic syndrome.

Creatinine is produced constantly, filtered and not resorbed, without active secretion, which is why it is an excellent proxy for glomerular filtration rate.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#272

Post by helgeman » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 1:31 PM UTC

precisioncoder wrote: post #206

helgeman wrote: post #195

The main issue i have with this is not wether it works or not. Even if it would be as healthy as the healthiest foods you could cook and it would therefore "work" i still would despise this. Why? First off I think somethings simply do not need to be fixed. The making, eating and sharing of food is one of life's greatest pleasures. It is like saying .. well how can i fix this this sex thing? its taking too much of my…

The great thing about life is that we can make our own choices. I don't think judging other people based on the decisions they make is a healthy attitude. The more we provide new options for people the more diversity in human experience we create and that is often beneficial. Guess who didn't choose to partake in sex despite plenty of opportunity: Nikola Tesla. Of course he never did anything important...

Another thing: "I don't think judging other people based on the decisions they make is a healthy attitude." What would be a healthy attitude to judge others by?

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#273

Post by will_work4tears » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 1:37 PM UTC

beagle3 wrote: post #258

will_work4tears wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That you can only get B-12 from meat" Well, maybe "meat sources (dairy products under the umbrella) are the only significant source of B-12 without supplementation" is more accurate. Cereals are "fortified" so I count that as supplementation. Sure, many yeasts contains B-12 too, some quite a bit. I'd even agree that it is significant, but it doesn't occur in foods people normally eat (maybe a guess here, but if that…

And now for the science: neither people nor animals make their own B12. Instead, we employ good bacteria in our gut to do that (and so do cows). After the discovery of antibiotics, many people in the western world became B12 deficient - especially vegetarians. However cows and other animals are just as incapable of making it - and in the last 30 years or so, just as deficient as humans, as they've also been getting l…

I think if anyone reasonable researches this they'll see that there is still some controversy on the issue (Studies show both sides). I don't have an axe to grind in this argument, so I'm not even going to bother digging that deep, but I'm not entirely convinced. I'm not a meat eater for the sole purpose of getting B12 and dont' try to convince vegans to eat meat with such sad arguments, so I hardly care what the true concensious is (though I'd be convinced with some real sites by actual qualified dieticians or other health professionals -sorry, It's a fallacy, but I don't like getting my "facts" from programmers and Wikipedia).

Anyway, my guess is you are in your early to mid twenties, and probably have only been a vegan for a handful of years, am I right? Give it 20, 30 years and lets see if your B12 levels are still good.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#274

Post by DanBC » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 1:44 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #245

jacques_chester wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily enough, that's the whole pitch for Soylent. "I'm just a smart guy with a fresh pair of eyes who spent a few weekends reading undergrad textbooks and skimming pubmed". Not: "we're a large company with deeply-interested professionals who've made this their life's work, our own multi-million dollar labs and decades of accumulated experience in the development, testing, validation and manufacture of temporary foo…

> Not: "we're a large company with deeply-interested professionals who've made this their life's work, our own multi-million dollar labs and decades of accumulated experience in the development, testing, validation and manufacture of temporary food substitutes". Because that's boooorrrrinnnng. I think it's not because it sounds boring but because it sounds like a marketing bullshit. Guy in a suit tells you "trust us,…

> I think it's not because it sounds boring but because it sounds like a marketing bullshit. Guy in a suit tells you "trust us, we have a whole basement of experts and years of experience" but when you check them out, the company was funded few months ago and only one employee doesn't have some sort of "manager" or "director" in his job title.

But this is an aspect of the large nutrition companies that can be checked out. Unless you're talking about the other companies.

They do have a lot of people with respected qualifications working for them; they do produce all these different products.

The bullshit with these companies is that they push multivitamins as useful for everyone, when really there's a limited market. They push a bunch of other stuff as useful for all kinds of conditions, when really the evidence is weak at best.

> Those of us who eat to live don't expect much from industry after McDonalds and sugar everywhere but we still desperately hope for something better. That hopes fuels enthusiasm for soylent.

That's fair enough. It's your body, and you can make your own choices. You know that as well as Soylent there are a bunch of these liquid feeding products, so if you wanted to experiment now you can?

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#275

Post by jacques_chester » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 1:50 PM UTC

mogrim wrote: post #262

jacques_chester wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could try different foods . There are probably more distinct dishes to try than can be tasted in a standard human lifetime. Or enough that you might be forced, say, to try something twice in your entire life. Oh noes. And it goes on. Perhaps you really enjoy Caesar salad. I know I do. When I am trialling a new place I will often order the Caesar salad as a reasonably reliable proxy for the quality of the kitch…

you... bastard. Did you really have to mention ribs? I'm starving now :(

Sorry.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#276

Post by stonemetal » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 1:51 PM UTC

marze wrote: post #130

nonchalance wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your aim is for improved mental function, more energy, less health problems, etc., you don't need to know how to interpret any obscure tests. You'll know. Perception is different from reality, as exemplified by an Apple anecdote: http://www.asktog.com/TOI/toi06KeyboardVMouse1.html We’ve done a cool $50 million of R & D on the Apple Human Interface. We discovered, among other things, two pertinent facts: - Test s…

No doubt people can misjudge things. With health changes, I think it is often easier to see changes in the negative direction, like the author when he stopped the soylent trial. If the changes are great enough in magnitude to be obvious, then you know you're on to something. Also, measures like weight and computer mental agility tests can be quite reliable if you are consistent in your testing, and they aren't subjec…

Ah so then you also believe horses can do math. After all we have proof: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#277

Post by outworlder » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 1:57 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #219

mynameishere wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You stopped too late. The whole post is a farce. Take the title When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks . I've actually done this. I mean, stopped eating aside from water for weeks, and it's really no big deal. The body is designed for that kind of privation. He's just some yuppie going for page views without a discernible reason, unless he's marketing for blah-blah-blah health tonic.

> I mean, stopped eating aside from water for weeks, and it's really no big deal. The body is designed for that kind of privation. // I've fasted for 2 days. I felt weak, dizzy and unwell on the second day (yes I had plenty of water). I was unable to do normal activities. It was a big deal.

That's probably the first time ever you did that. But the body adapts.

My brother is a diabetic. Whenever his suger level dropped from 80, he'd start shaking, have headaches and other hypoglicemia symptoms. A few years now and he can hit much lower levels without feeling any ill symptoms.

Try fasting for a day, see how that works out. Then do it more frequently. Then try two days.

Our ancestors were probably(*) used to spending days hunting for food without success, so occasional fasting should not be that big of a deal.

Also, do some checkups. You might have a condition which is preventing you from spending that much time without eating (low blood pressure, for instance, or even existing nutritional imbalances).

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#278

Post by OhHeyItsE » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 1:58 PM UTC

Wow! A meal replacement powder! Groundbreaking! Why are we talking about this again? Oh right. Because Tim Ferris is talking about it.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#279

Post by mimiflynn » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:00 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #263

julius wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Einstein was a patent office guy. Yet his notable weird tricks (like constant speed of light) aren't even in the same system.

Yeah, a "patent office guy" who knew nothing about physics at all until he suddenly overturned the entire world through sheer force of will. Certainly not a guy who already wanted to be a physics teacher with all the requisite training and credentials, including published papers in prestigious journals in his first year of working in the patent office, but had to find a job to make money in the meantime while he sear…

Exactly, just like all the barista's and waiters / waitresses that became doctors and lawyers ;)

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#280

Post by hnaccount8888 » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:02 PM UTC

pron wrote: post #214

shanedanger wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the author grossly does not understand the medical tests he had done and misinterprets the data" As the author himself, I can corroborate your statement that I don't understand medical tests as well as a trained physician. :) However, the point of the post was to present the data so others could interpret / draw conclusions. I gave my observations and perspective, but I made every attempt to indicate the potential w…

I'm sorry, but you've collected no data, only noise. Eating rice for 2 weeks would have produced similar effects. As to your subjective experience – it's probably 100% placebo. If you want to call something an experiment, you should know how to conduct an experiment in that respective field. Your experiences only show how a product like Soylent induces magical thinking in its consumers. If you want to produce a singl…

If you don't mind me asking, can you produce some food studies/experiments that are up to your standards, so I can get an idea of what one would look like?