Earlier quoted context omitted.
jacques_chester, The Dream Killer. P.S.: I am currently eating Chicken I made with a side of snap-peas from my garden. I do what you say already -- I just also want an alternative which has incredible shelf-life, portability, cost-benefit, etc. etc. etc.
Dream killer? Nah, merely a young curmudgeon. I need my 10,000 hours of grumping so that "get off my grass" really stings , y'know? By the way -- there are such alternatives already available. Have you bought any before?
Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks
191–200 of 372 posts
Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
"the author grossly does not understand the medical tests he had done and misinterprets the data" As the author himself, I can corroborate your statement that I don't understand medical tests as well as a trained physician. :) However, the point of the post was to present the data so others could interpret / draw conclusions. I gave my observations and perspective, but I made every attempt to indicate the potential w…
You did not mention the placebo effect though. That's the largest weakness of such an experiment. Your brain may be convinced (without you being strictly conscious about it) that Soylent is good for you and trigger all kind of benefits that you assessed yourself. That's why clinical trials are running in double-blind modes, to remove as much as possible the placebo effect. A self-assessed experiment is, and will alwa…
Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks
#193I'm still reading this, but this paragraph just made me incredibly frustrated: "...The white stuff that was mixed into the tan stuff was floating to the top and congealing together... So I just started just scooping them out... I’m pretty sure the white chunks were the rice protein, and perhaps something else important." You're the first review of Soylent, and you throwing away blobs because ...? It looked icky? This…
Yeah, but so what? I mean, consider how much that honestly could have amounted to. 100 calories, distributed across 10 grams of nutrients per shake? He still drank a shake, and at no point does he claim to have reformulated the mix by adding to it, or deliberately attempting to chemically alter it, or switch to different products. Anyway, human nutrition must be capable of tolerating human error and envionmental haza…
I'm just speculating, but when consuming Soylent I would assume that one needs to eat all of it (or rather, all of the dose, if that's the right term).
Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks
#194I'm all for people having the freedom to eat whatever they want and I really like the quantified self aspect of seeing how diet affects how they feel and metrics of health, but I have to say the author grossly does not understand the medical tests he had done and misinterprets the data. I'm not going to comment on the drink, but rather on his misunderstanding of medicine. First, EGFR is not "Epidermal Growth Factor R…
Nice job missing the forest but spotting a few trees. I see some promising initial signs given the short duration of the trial. Imagine if there was a new drug that gave the mental benefits the guy reported after two weeks of use and saved you money too. It would be front page news. The guy doesn't claim to be a medical expert, he just did his best to report the results of a bunch of miscellaneous tests that were sug…
Sell people a green pill and tell them it'll make them want fast food less. Done.
Make it more dramatic and you'll get a better effect. Expensive helps, requiring it to be injected would help even more.
Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks
#195I know there are indeed people who don't have much time because they are very busy. My suggestion is indeed .. fix your time management and/or your schedule instead of fixing your food.
If you dont enjoy food than i would suggest there is something wrong with you. Because we were all programmed to enjoy it .. like sex .. it is one of our main motivators in life.
Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If your aim is for improved mental function, more energy, less health problems, etc., you don't need to know how to interpret any obscure tests. You'll know. Perception is different from reality, as exemplified by an Apple anecdote: http://www.asktog.com/TOI/toi06KeyboardVMouse1.html We’ve done a cool $50 million of R & D on the Apple Human Interface. We discovered, among other things, two pertinent facts: - Test s…
>This contradiction between user-experience and reality apparently forms the basis for many user/developers’ belief that the keyboard is faster. Interesting article. I'm sure the $50M in studies were of non-power users, though, and so irrelevant for developers with sufficiently powerful keyboard shortcuts. I can guarantee it doesn't take me 2 seconds for my top 20 keyboard shortcuts, any more than it takes 2 seconds…
Without measuring it A/B I cannot guarantee anything. Those people were just as sure. And I don't think they were keyboard un-savvy -- at that point in computing, they were far more proficient with a keyboard (AppleII etc) than a mouse.
Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of the best parts about this whole Soylent debacle is getting to watch well-known people make complete fools of themselves by commenting on things that they clearly know absolutely nothing about, but still feel like they have the right to make authoritative statements on.
That's true, from both the "for" and "against sides". Anyone who things that only happens on one of the sides should check their confirmation bias. And no, this is not an "every opinion deserves equal airtime" claim. The vast majority of nutrition and health experts draw on a mix of science, pseudo science and superstition, and assume it is all science. (Quick check: Think salt intake causes hypertension? That dietar…
When someone who isn't trained at all in a field claims to have made a revolutionary advance in that field, the rational response for a non-subject-matter-expert member of the public is deep skepticism. The discovery might indeed be revolutionary, but the way we find out is by running proper scientific tests on it, not by pioneering the revolution.
The rational objective news angle on this is as a human interest story. Until a proper, falsifiable scientific test is at least planned, this project is genuinely interesting, but has no scientific merit.
(FWIW, health advice condensed into headline "do" and "don't" edicts is bad science reporting as well)
Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dream killer? Nah, merely a young curmudgeon. I need my 10,000 hours of grumping so that "get off my grass" really stings , y'know? By the way -- there are such alternatives already available. Have you bought any before?
What are they? I'm interested in "I'm too lazy to cook today but don't want to eat unhealthy fast food" food.
https://www.google.com/search?q=meal+replacement+shakes
Almost all of them are marketed to the diet crowd. There are a bunch of 'atkins' branded bars, too, if you are going the low-carb route. Slim-fast, I know, can be had in giant tubs for relatively little money per serving; I remember as a kid, looking through my grandparent's pantry and finding a giant tub of slim-fast.
This is a huge industry. I mean, sure, marketing it to hackers is a new thing, and something I, personally, would have never considered, and the guy is doing a hell of a job of it, but yeah; the product itself is nothing new, even if he's selling to a group that has not yet been targeted.
Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
From this NYTimes article ( http://www.nytimes.com/1986/09/07/business/the-ever-fatter-b... ): "The Government forced all liquid protein products off the market after they were implicated in 59 deaths." The article doesn't give many details, but it looks like changes in diet can be dangerous.
No, it looks like people can be scared by correlation. Of course changes in diet can be dangerous (you just try switching to an all cyanide diet). But "liquid protein products"? Like milk? Or protein shakes? There are certainly plenty of "liquid protein products" on the market, and heavily used, and tons more protein products sold as powders to be mixed with water, milk or juice by consumers. Somehow we don't have we…
Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks
#200I just posted this to Tim's Blog: --------------------- It seems probable that soylent is better than much of the manufactured food on the market. It also seems unlikely that soylent is better than quality whole food. I take Nassim Taleb's approach. We don’t know what we don’t know about food. I’d like to address two of Shane’s points. I'm listing the objections Shane raises, then his reply: Shane's first point: Obje…
Here's an easy counterpoint to that:
Which mushrooms are poisonous?
The answer is: We don't really know.
We know a tiny subset that we know we have not been able to implicate in any harmful effects. So far.
We also know a number of mushrooms that are lethal uncooked and unless cooked in certain ways (commonly you have to boil off the poisons) and where poisons are known or suspected to accumulate in the body and where people are thus recommended to avoid more than a meal or two per season with the expectation that this will keep your total exposure to below dangerous levels over your lifetime. But most of these have been discovered because they have toxins that are strong enough to kill or cause serious illness if the mushroom is not treated correctly. An example is Gyromitra esculenta, which is frequently implicated in cases where people who didn't bother to read up on it before preparing have gotten sick after standing over the pot while boiling it, or even just keeping windows closed.
But toxins in mushrooms are incredibly tricky. Many known poisonous mushrooms first affect people after weeks, at which point if you're unlucky, some vital organ just shuts down and it's already too late. In the case of many of the known poisonous mushrooms, we don't know how they work, or are not even sure exactly which substance in the mushroom is dangerous. The connection between the mushrooms and the negative effects are in many cases a "recent" (as in last hundred years") discovery as we've gotten more sophisticated about identifying the causes.
Given the nature of a lot of mushroom toxins we do know about, we have little to no basis for saying that none of the mushrooms that are commonly eaten have substantial long term negative health effects. (Yet they are too yummy to resist..)
In the vast majority of mushrooms, we simply don't know if they are dangerous or not, at all, or even if they are used as food, as there is a lot of poor knowledge of mushrooms amongst people who do in fact pick and eat them, and mushroom species are frequently confused by pickers, which both means a lot of the knowledge we have about them are dicy.
This is intentionally an extreme example since you made an overly broad point.
It is probably true that for a lot of "natural foods" we can say with reasonable certainty that they are safe. But the history of identifying dangerous mushrooms have amply demonstrated that people have trouble connecting cause and effect in terms of diet when the events are separated by even a few days, and that even scientific investigations into it can take a lot of time to determine harmful effect even when caused by - in some cases - powerful neurotoxins.
There's really no reason to assume that the long history of natural foods would lead people to realise harmful effects from it that are separated from ingestion by all that much more than that, so apart from the really immediate effects you can pretty much ditch most experience older than a couple of hundred years as irrelevant in proving the safety of foods. Of course that still leaves a substantial amount of time and scientific inquiry into natural foods that gives it an edge in claiming safety over something completely new, but the scales are nowhere near as clearly tilted in on direction as you make out
EDIT: Another interesting thing to look at, is how the knowledge of how to prevent scurvy was long limited to the extent that it was a military advantage for the British for a long time, and how they subsequently lost the knowledge: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/forg...