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Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

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Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#271

Post by 1dontnkow_ »

tristanj wrote: post #134
hintymad wrote: post #123

Personally, I don't get why people blindly reject any collaboration with the military. I understand that they are pacifists, but I still don't get it. When I look at history, I see so many tragedies caused by being weak. Both Germany and the Soviet Union were able to invade Poland, for instance, and the Katyn massacre is a national scar. And who wouldn't want to defeat invaders like Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard…

I have thought about this a lot, and concluded that the peace we have today largely stems from all major powers having nuclear weapons, and leadership in each understanding that avoiding nuclear war is the utmost priority. All foreign policy choices are aligned to prevent military confrontation and avoid nuclear war. Thus there is an overemphasis to resolve disputes through diplomacy. But the plebeians do not underst…

I use that quote alot too when it suits me but given we are actually talking about war and crisis isn't it more accurate to say:

"Hard times eradicate most of the population and some survive with heavy PTSD and regrets, then after the destruction some peace agreement is reached and so after many years of rebuilding the good times do come."

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#272

Post by 1dontnkow_ »

tristanj wrote: post #191
qnleigh wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic interdependence is also a big factor. If you depend on someone selling you things or buying them from you, you have a lot more to lose by invading them.

That's the Capitalist peace theory, proposed in 1795 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_peace_theory It has some truth to it, but it doesn't survive looking at European history. In 1913 Germany and Britain were each other's largest trading partners, but a year later they ended up fighting each other in WWI. They fought again in WWII. Nuclear deterrence is a better explanation of post-WWII peace.

Well to be correct also the parent said "is also a big factor" so Id say there are like 10 big factors (or dunno) and society should ensure countries are linked and allied by those factors.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#273

Post by 1dontnkow_ »

laughing_man wrote: post #197
emodendroket wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I look at history, I see so many tragedies caused by being weak. Both Germany and the Soviet Union were able to invade Poland, for instance, and the Katyn massacre is a national scar. And who wouldn't want to defeat invaders like Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard of the Yangzhou massacre or the Three Massacres of Jiading? Why would we let civilization succumb to barbarism? Well, what if people had refused to l…

What if you're on the receiving end and don't get a choice?

I don't wanna say but some people decide to do the unthinkable and that's how boulevards are filled with statues. You always have a choice, they just all suck.

There were quite some that refused due to principles and beliefs, but I guess not enough, and when there are not enough the first sacrificed for nothing.

Some places for other evil ideas that didn't reach global size, it means enough people stood up and they won.

Whats the formula? I guess nobody knows.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#274

Post by Manuel_D »

4MOAisgoodenuf wrote: post #36
JuniperMesos wrote: post #12

[flagged]

Google exists to make money and is happy to change their opinions to suit the current force in power. But that “critique” of gender diversity efforts said that the lack of women in CS was due to some innate difference in women (rather than a social division that is neither innate nor universal across time or cultures) While also decrying the lack of affirmative action for conservatives. It’s neither the tipping point…

The gender disparity in computing is largely universal across cultures, though. That's why the assumption that it's culturally determined is on shaky ground

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#275

Post by tzs »

abhv wrote: post #160

I don't understand the negativity here. He is a top expert on a security topic. Running Android platform security gives him an opportunity to have incredible positive impact for many people---which he did for a decade. People weigh trade-offs. At the beginning, he may have had high ambitions to deploy interesting, research-forward ideas to Android; at this point, he has accomplished a lot of that. Maybe now, he is co…

> I don't understand the negativity here

Most of the commenters are experienced programmers, and like many experienced programmers have largely lost the ability to think about things in non-binary terms.

You see this on most threads that aren't about a mostly technical subject.

I think I can still think in a non-binary way despite decades of programming but I attribute that to to getting burned out about 10 years into my career and taking a break to go to law school. Looking back at my writing before taking that break I can see that I was thinking in a very binary way.

First year law school does a really good job of breaking that.

I seriously think that some of the things from first year law school should be moved into the standard bachelor's degree program for CS, and maybe for several other STEM degrees, taught exactly the same way they are taught in law school. Maybe contracts and torts. Those are both good at building up your non-binary thinking. Heck, maybe do nearly the whole first year of law school, spread out over the 4 years of your bachelor's degree.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#276

Post by hollerith »

nixon_why69 wrote: post #181
rayiner wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because Americans and many Europeans under the shield of the U.S. military and have never in their lives felt a moment of fear about external threats.[1] They never have to meaningfully confront the central fact of their existence: that they enjoy a vastly disproportionate share of the world's bounty in a way that would be impossible without overwhelming military power. I suspect people living in say Ukraine don…

The Colonel Jessup character was guarding a fence in Cuba. Seriously. Cuba. Imagine hearing that sanctimonious speech about "the manner in which I defend you" and then you find out it's a fence in Cuba. There hasn't been an existential threat to the United States since the Civil War, and that one was self-inflicted. Obviously we need to maintain a military but 99% of what the current military does is either for econo…

More than half of US ocean shipping tonnages is to or from ports on the US Gulf Coast, and Cuba is in a position to cut off access to it if it gets helps from a bigger power.

The US has legitimate security interests in Cuba.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#277

Post by hollerith »

sevenzero wrote: post #193
nixon_why69 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Colonel Jessup character was guarding a fence in Cuba. Seriously. Cuba. Imagine hearing that sanctimonious speech about "the manner in which I defend you" and then you find out it's a fence in Cuba. There hasn't been an existential threat to the United States since the Civil War, and that one was self-inflicted. Obviously we need to maintain a military but 99% of what the current military does is either for econo…

Isn't every nuclear bomb an existential threat to all human life? How can one say there are no existential threats while countries people consider "The Enemy" have enough nukes to kill all human life multiple times? Also global warming is an existential threat. It's really telling how little people care about the world's problems not seeing their very own existence endangered.

>Isn't every nuclear bomb an existential threat to all human life?

No, of course not. It's a threat to people within 15 miles of the explosion plus people who are outdoors and turn to look at the bright light in the sky.

And there's never been enough nukes to kill all human life. That statement is based on a despicable calculation in which it is assumed that people would assemble packed shoulder-to-shoulder in circles of just the right size and there are no structures or land masses to deflect the blast and no clouds or fog to absorb the intense light.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#278

Post by econ »

hintymad wrote: post #123

Personally, I don't get why people blindly reject any collaboration with the military. I understand that they are pacifists, but I still don't get it. When I look at history, I see so many tragedies caused by being weak. Both Germany and the Soviet Union were able to invade Poland, for instance, and the Katyn massacre is a national scar. And who wouldn't want to defeat invaders like Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard…

>Personally, I don't get why people blindly reject any collaboration with the military

If you don't understand don't call it blindly.

If the country doesn't align with your world view at all there is no reason to fight for its military. Let those who like it the way it is do the fighting. If it is the complete opposite of what you would like you should fight against it. Aggression should scale with how offended you are.

Why would you blindly cooperate with some military?

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#279

Post by econ »

NicuCalcea wrote: post #228
hintymad wrote: post #123

Personally, I don't get why people blindly reject any collaboration with the military. I understand that they are pacifists, but I still don't get it. When I look at history, I see so many tragedies caused by being weak. Both Germany and the Soviet Union were able to invade Poland, for instance, and the Katyn massacre is a national scar. And who wouldn't want to defeat invaders like Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard…

In this specific instance, this is the military of a country different from the one of the author. A country that is increasingly hostile towards its allies and does weird shit on the international stage that is difficult to justify.

Weird shit is just by lack of cosy cover story.

Each military operation has a cool story in advance and a different cool story afterwards. Neither is ever true and if someone finds out the "truth" it usually isn't even half the story.

Usually if you go back far enough there is some guy with an obviously stupid idea. It then takes effort to keep the stupid idea alive and side shows become the main act.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#280

Post by leptons »

saltyoldman wrote: post #267
leptons wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice whataboutism. This pointless internet interaction is over.

Is it over because making real arguments backed by facts are hard?

Nice whataboutism. This pointless internet interaction is over.
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