Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

mayrhofer.eu.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 292 posts

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#181

Post by nixon_why69 »

rayiner wrote: post #128
hintymad wrote: post #123

Personally, I don't get why people blindly reject any collaboration with the military. I understand that they are pacifists, but I still don't get it. When I look at history, I see so many tragedies caused by being weak. Both Germany and the Soviet Union were able to invade Poland, for instance, and the Katyn massacre is a national scar. And who wouldn't want to defeat invaders like Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard…

It's because Americans and many Europeans under the shield of the U.S. military and have never in their lives felt a moment of fear about external threats.[1] They never have to meaningfully confront the central fact of their existence: that they enjoy a vastly disproportionate share of the world's bounty in a way that would be impossible without overwhelming military power. I suspect people living in say Ukraine don…

The Colonel Jessup character was guarding a fence in Cuba. Seriously. Cuba. Imagine hearing that sanctimonious speech about "the manner in which I defend you" and then you find out it's a fence in Cuba.

There hasn't been an existential threat to the United States since the Civil War, and that one was self-inflicted. Obviously we need to maintain a military but 99% of what the current military does is either for economic goals or hollow national pride.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#182

Post by leptons »

rayiner wrote: post #16
leptons wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Can evil also be interpreted as letting your government be impotent in protecting you? When they rename "Department of Defense" to "Department of War", there can be no mistake about the intention of the government. They aren't "protecting" us, they are actively starting unnecessary wars, because cruelty has always been the point for them.

Did you just realize this now? The name "Department of Defense" has always been a euphemism. The last time we were in a defensive war was World War II--ironically, when the DoD was still called the "Department of War."

Nice whataboutism. This pointless internet interaction is over.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#183

Post by jon_adler »

floren wrote: post #174
tristanj wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have thought about this a lot, and concluded that the peace we have today largely stems from all major powers having nuclear weapons, and leadership in each understanding that avoiding nuclear war is the utmost priority. All foreign policy choices are aligned to prevent military confrontation and avoid nuclear war. Thus there is an overemphasis to resolve disputes through diplomacy. But the plebeians do not underst…

Shocking how a quote from some 2016 novel now rolls around the Internet like it's fucking Aristotle

"With great power comes great responsibility" - Spider-Man

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#184

Post by emodendroket »

localhoster wrote: post #33

Not that I care in particular But claiming that google lost it's "moral compass" just now is a claim only rich people can make because they retire, not quit. Google is literally the largest, most organized, tracking and profiling company in the world. Which they tend to grow even larger with the rise of LLMs. Turning a blind eye of that for the opportunity or whatever, and than claim that _just now_ they lost their m…

I mean, this guy is probably not a bleeding heart, but he had a certain line and wouldn't cross it. I'm not sure the potshots are really warranted. We all realize they were not bleeding heart do-gooders, but saying you're OK with that but not with certain uses of AI in warfare doesn't strike me as incoherent.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#185

Post by ngcazz »

hintymad wrote: post #123

Personally, I don't get why people blindly reject any collaboration with the military. I understand that they are pacifists, but I still don't get it. When I look at history, I see so many tragedies caused by being weak. Both Germany and the Soviet Union were able to invade Poland, for instance, and the Katyn massacre is a national scar. And who wouldn't want to defeat invaders like Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard…

This is an academic point. The US represents one third of the world's military spending because it uses force to further the economic interests of the elite. To work in a "defense" supplier is to support this.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#186

Post by ngcazz »

floren wrote: post #174
tristanj wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have thought about this a lot, and concluded that the peace we have today largely stems from all major powers having nuclear weapons, and leadership in each understanding that avoiding nuclear war is the utmost priority. All foreign policy choices are aligned to prevent military confrontation and avoid nuclear war. Thus there is an overemphasis to resolve disputes through diplomacy. But the plebeians do not underst…

Shocking how a quote from some 2016 novel now rolls around the Internet like it's fucking Aristotle

It sounds like something Steve Bannon realized in the shower before heading to the Oval Office.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#187

Post by tastyface »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #173
tastyface wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for anyone else, but as a Christian, it's really quite simple: any death that you help cause is a black mark on your soul. Maybe you can repent for it, someday. But it's not something that will just be let go when the day of reckoning comes. Incidentally, I'd feel the same way about killing someone in self-defense.

What if avoiding causing a death instead results in thousands of deaths? Do you give yourself a moral high five and stick your head in the sand?

That is not my call to make.

In a life-or-death situation, maybe a Christian could make the decision to take another life, then spend the rest of their life burdened by the guilt and sorrow of breaking the unambiguous 6th Commandment. There is room for repentance in this context.

That is *far* from the reality of the "defense" industry, however. Making widgets so that some dude at a computer terminal has an easier time drone-striking buildings full of kids halfway across the world is, essentially, evil.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#188

Post by Rebelgecko »

beambot wrote: post #131
lbrito wrote: post #24

>“Don’t Be Evil” wasn’t just a slogan (...) —it was a north star for teams making hard calls I've developed an involuntary, muscle-level reflex that forces me to close the tab immediately when I read these "not just X -- it was Y" LLMisms. I realize the author might be human and am sorry if that's the case, but I can't help it.

Google removed "Don't be evil" from its Code of Conduct in May 2018. Shocking that it took 8 years for the author to make their ethical stand -- during which time Google stock went up 600%...

It was still there when I started in the 2020s

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#189

Post by qnleigh »

tristanj wrote: post #134
hintymad wrote: post #123

Personally, I don't get why people blindly reject any collaboration with the military. I understand that they are pacifists, but I still don't get it. When I look at history, I see so many tragedies caused by being weak. Both Germany and the Soviet Union were able to invade Poland, for instance, and the Katyn massacre is a national scar. And who wouldn't want to defeat invaders like Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard…

I have thought about this a lot, and concluded that the peace we have today largely stems from all major powers having nuclear weapons, and leadership in each understanding that avoiding nuclear war is the utmost priority. All foreign policy choices are aligned to prevent military confrontation and avoid nuclear war. Thus there is an overemphasis to resolve disputes through diplomacy. But the plebeians do not underst…

Economic interdependence is also a big factor. If you depend on someone selling you things or buying them from you, you have a lot more to lose by invading them.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#190

Post by qnleigh »

localhoster wrote: post #33

Not that I care in particular But claiming that google lost it's "moral compass" just now is a claim only rich people can make because they retire, not quit. Google is literally the largest, most organized, tracking and profiling company in the world. Which they tend to grow even larger with the rise of LLMs. Turning a blind eye of that for the opportunity or whatever, and than claim that _just now_ they lost their m…

I know Google's track record prior to the DOW contact is far from perfect, but is it really so hard to understand why it crossed a line for a lot of people? Why are we acting like ad tracking/targeting and developing autonomous lethal weapons are morally comparable?
Post reply on HN