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Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

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Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The giant gaping loophole they left in place. Renewals and COS (change of status) does not incur the $100k fee.

Then the H-1B wouldn’t make sense. Many holders would have to transfer from one company to another, and if there is a $100,000 requirement, it would just lead to exploitation. The better solution is just stop H1B lottery from next year.

They should remove the lottery and make it a bidding war. Highest bidder gets the H-1B visas.

Realistically, the H-1B visa program should be terminated all together.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#272

H1B is used to hire the best talent that gets paid big bucks as well as cheap talent that is paid less. Both are true. It depends on the company. I haven't seen Google or FB or Amazon or other top tech companies pay H1B any less. They get paid pretty well. But firing people (some might be on H1B too) and hiring H1B at the same time is meaningless. Btw, if you want to stop people from getting fired, J Powell needs to…

I've worked at Google and Amazon. Both paid H-1B less than their american counterparts. In particular because the H-1B workers didn't jump companies as frequent.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#273
post #137

I don't understand why American workers would support this program at this scale. Furthermore, I believe universities and other similar researchy/affiliated non-profits are exempt from the hiring caps. I just cannot imagine executives at tech companies/body shops having any positive ethical motivations. More like "they'll do what we say without complaining or they'll go home". There's no way it's not just a hugely ab…

There's not much preventing you from starting a company and not hiring immigrants. This is something I'd encourage everyone with strong opinions about work visas to try and accomplish. You don't change a system by crying about it on anonymous internet forums, you do it by competing against it and making it redundant.

Did you write a patronizing comment because you don't have an intellectual argument? Making comments about an abusive visa program isn't crying. Nowhere have I said immigrants are to blame, nor have I said that we should stop immigration.

The H-1B visa program is simply another element of the system that capital uses to abuse labor in the United States. It's not enough that healthcare (if you are even lucky enough to get any) is tied to employment. The low bar for bringing in foreign workers is used as a negotiating tactic by employers. There is no equivalent leverage for workers, absent economic ruin. This problem affects tens of millions of Americans and that's not normal and it's not okay. Maybe the law should allow H-1B visa, but also charge an absolutely huge premium (> $250k) that the company commits to worker healthcare or something. If the positions are so essential then $250k is still an incredibly good deal.

America has to start addressing the imbalance of power between capital and labor. It's gotten bad enough that one could easily argue that it's becoming a potent anti-democratic force in the US. And, I'm sorry, but Americans should not have to cede their desire for equal economic footing because people like you want intimate that it's about "not hiring immigrants".

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#274

It's very sad how illiberal hackernews gets when it comes to H-1B visas and immigration in general. People will say that they are concerned about the welfare of H-1B holders because they can't leave their jobs but I've literally never heard anyone suggest an improvement (better portability, etc). Instead all anyone talks about is how bad it is that they have to compete against people from around the world. I think pe…

Correct.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#275
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's missing the point. Ultimately, companies who use H1B visas will outcompete companies who don't because the H1B system gives them cheaper labor costs. The solution has to come at the regulatory level. 150 years ago, if you told someone "oh if you want safer factories just build one yourself," that business would never survive because they'd get outcompeted by the less scrupulous factory owners who were happy to…

Your factory analogy is great because that's exactly how it happened and we outsourced everything to China. It's significantly easier to outsource white collar work. And you can keep playing the regulation game until there are no companies left.

Right but you act like nothing can be done about that. If you outsource enough then don't count on the US government to protect you overseas. Go ahead and risk nationalization. The very fact that we are having this discussion shows how bad the situation is: companies can effectively threaten to move all their jobs overseas, thereby threatening US workers with economic ruin. That's not okay.

The government grants broad liability shields to owners of companies because there is a vested state interest in facilitating commerce/economic growth. I guess if companies are just going to move overseas then maybe those liability shields could just be vacated. They don't deserve to have their cake and eat it too. It's easy: want the liability shield? Stop being fucking greedy and be a good corporate citizen. Otherwise, no cake for you.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#276

All foreigners, pay attention to the people in this thread. They will often ask you to form unions with them. But what would such a union do? Well logically it would do what these people are asking them to do. And what do you see around you? Does it look like they're in favour of you. Do you think you'd be better off? Remember that the Hyundai workers in Georgia were deported at the best of the local union. Right now…

Yup. Being a supporter of unions means being the opposite of a supporter of globalism.

I’m a globalist and fully understand modern disliking of unions.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#277
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in Bellevue, WA, and there are a lot of Indians. How many are on H-1B? I I don't know. Anyway, I am a life long Democrat, but the Democratic Party needs to do something huge for American workers (like single payer healthcare) or we'll have Trump III or its equivalent or worse than that.

I don't think "American workers" are the target demographic of the Democratic Party though. And yes, the next round will be "worse than Trump". The reality is Trump ran on certain principles that his voters adhered to, and he didn't deliver. The next logical step will be to support somebody even more "extreme".

Unfortunately, you are 100% correct. Trump was never going to deliver because he's the living, breathing embodiment of two things: Dunning-Kruger, and the ethos of disgusting corporate greed/abuse that's ruining the country. Trump and people like him are the most dangerous anti-democratic force ever assembled in America.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#278
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's MAGA for you. They're not even complaining (very much) about super high gas prices. They absolutely excoriated Biden when the price went up even a nickel. MAGA will sacrifice absolutely anything for their king.

How is it different from democrats who didn't complain about gas prices under Biden and are now throwing tantrums over gas prices?

It isn't any different. Hypocrisy, along with greed, is ruining the world.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America is at near full employment Then why does it take months and months for even experienced devs to land a job?

> why does it take months and months for even experienced devs to land a job? Software is undergoing a secular downsizing. It increasingly looks like we have too many SWEs, and that we need to support them retraining. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a labor shortage in other industries.

I'm not disputing what you're saying in your comment necessarily, and supposing it's true for a moment ... why are we granting any visas at all here?

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#280
post #58
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to cut through the headline here. The largest chunk of Oracle layoffs were in India [1]. In comparison, they've barely fired any American workers. Contrary to popular opinion, IT workers aren't interchangeable and there exist a large swath of jobs that very few people qualify for (HN should know this) because of the specialization required. America is at near full employment [2]. Replacing American workers with…

From your first link, it says 10% of 28k employees in India were cut. I personally know several people who were laid off from Oracle this week (OCI). One person who's still there described it as a "bloodbath across our division" and says he counted 15k. I don't know what exactly he was counting but as we're in North America I am assuming they're all here. Whereas India layoffs were fewer than 3k. So that directly dis…

Can confirm. Friend laid off on team of 15, that team is now down to 7. They built datacenters, too. US based. That's, sorta concerning since I thought their entire future bag was making datacenters......
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