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Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

9to5mac.com

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Re: Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

#271

Post by theshrike79 »

thisislife2 wrote: post #216

> “developers were overcharged by the difference between a 17.5% commission for app purchases and the commission Apple charged, which Kent’s lawyers said was usually 30%.” > “The CAT also ruled that app developers passed on 50% of the overcharge to consumers.” And that's why I stopped buying Apple products - ultimately it is the end user that pays for everything. Apple exploits both developers and its consumers.

Do you feel that Google is less bad in this, enough so that you would rather use their products?

Re: Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

#272

Post by jeroenhd »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #269
vladvasiliu wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which situation does the end user not pay for everything? Even a fine or a tax on a company ends rolled up in the price paid by the end user. Same thing with programs paid for by the government. It’s the taxpayers who foot the bill. I’m kinda split on the whole Apple situation. I’m firmly in the camp of “monopoly bad”, but apparently people are fine with apple’s practices. It’s not like they have to buy an iPhone.

> I’m kinda split on the whole Apple situation. I’m firmly in the camp of “monopoly bad”, but apparently people are fine with apple’s practices. It’s not like they have to buy an iPhone. There are many things that now require you to have a phone that runs iOS or Google-approved Android. They both monopolize their respective markets and charge 30%, locking out competitors with attestation systems etc. Two incumbents t…

Google-approved Android, at least for now until some judge hopefully shuts down the idiotic "verified developers" programme, has a range of app stores with different options. Unfortunately, Amazon shut theirs down, but charging a 30% convenience fee is a choice there.

Inside of the EU the same is true for iOS, of course, although Apple still somehow charging developers per install makes it hard to provide apps for free.

Re: Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

#273

Post by jeroenhd »

europeisdoomed wrote: post #103

how can I sue Google and Apple for not letting me change my device’s MAC address (Pixel and iPhone) and internet companies for leaking my IP addresses for tracking my internet activity or to track me. Does it violate GDPR requirements?

For changing your MAC address, randomly generated MAC addresses are the norm unless you change your settings to use a static one. You can set up your phone to use the phone's MAC or to generate a new one every time, but by default it'll generate a MAC address per WiFi network.

As for tracking you and your internet activity, you can file a complaint with your local DPA to hopefully spur them into action, that's free. If they don't take action, or decide that your complaint won't convince a judge, you can contact a legal professional and pay them to take your case to court like with any other legal matter.

Re: Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

#274

Post by troupo »

imron wrote: post #250
troupo wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The platform development, app hosting, payment processing, and quality control is surely worth something. 1. I didn't know iPhones are free. Or iPads. Or Macs. Or Apple developer program 2. Apple could just... not host apps or provide payment services, and allow people to install apps from alternatives and let devs use other payment systems

> and allow people to install apps from alternatives and let devs use other payment systems Pre iPhone this is how all software was sold. Not defending Apple, but independent developers ended up with far smaller piece of the pie. That’s one of the reasons devs flocked to the AppStore. At the time 70% was exceedingly generous compared to other distributors.

> That’s one of the reasons devs flocked to the AppStore. At the time 70% was exceedingly generous compared to other distributors.

It's quite ironic how the company that disrupted the frankly predatory pricing model standard at the time is now itself predatory.

Somewhat tangential:

It's also complicated by the markets changing: PCs used to be the ubiquitous platform (where you could distribute whatever you wanted however you wanted [1]), and the mobile phone was a luxury-ish product (tightly controlled by distributors). Now mobile phones are the ubiquitous platform everyone depends on... and they are extremely tightly locked down and controlled.

[1] Has anyone paid for their WinRaR license yet? :)

Re: Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

#275

Post by nandomrumber »

orasis wrote: post #201
crims0n wrote: post #11

Honest question, what do people think is a fair percentage? The platform development, app hosting, payment processing, and quality control is surely worth something .

As a professional iOS app publisher, I feel 15% is fair.

Genuine question, is the App Store fee a tax deductible business expense in your country?

Re: Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

#276

Post by pacifika »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #266
somenameforme wrote: post #197

I find headlines like this much more appropriate when placed in terms of days of revenue: "Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near 2 days of revenue!" For somebody that makes the median income, of about $50k, this is a fine of $273 for years of largescale systematic abusive behavior, done for profit.

> I find headlines like this much more appropriate when placed in terms of days of revenue: "Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near 2 days of revenue!" I feel like fines aren't even an appropriate remedy for this. They're both inherently arbitrary and not something that actually fixes it. And that combination gives governments a perverse incentive, because they get $2B to put in their own pockets…

Imagine the response if the uk tried to break up apple

Re: Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

#277

Post by AnthonyMouse »

jeroenhd wrote: post #272
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m kinda split on the whole Apple situation. I’m firmly in the camp of “monopoly bad”, but apparently people are fine with apple’s practices. It’s not like they have to buy an iPhone. There are many things that now require you to have a phone that runs iOS or Google-approved Android. They both monopolize their respective markets and charge 30%, locking out competitors with attestation systems etc. Two incumbents t…

Google-approved Android, at least for now until some judge hopefully shuts down the idiotic "verified developers" programme, has a range of app stores with different options. Unfortunately, Amazon shut theirs down, but charging a 30% convenience fee is a choice there. Inside of the EU the same is true for iOS, of course, although Apple still somehow charging developers per install makes it hard to provide apps for fr…

> Google-approved Android, at least for now until some judge hopefully shuts down the idiotic "verified developers" programme, has a range of app stores with different options.

In order for such a competitor to be viable for use by developers, it has to be installed on the devices of customers, which Google has acted to prevent. Google Play has over 90% market share on Android and has constrained OEMs from shipping devices with other stores installed and used other methods to prevent any alternatives from establishing a network effect.

And now that regulators are getting after them about doing those things, they've sprung this "verified developers" trap to keep it going.

This has the simplest evidence of anything. If other stores are a viable alternative, why do they have ~0% market share?

Re: Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

#278

Post by realusername »

crims0n wrote: post #11

Honest question, what do people think is a fair percentage? The platform development, app hosting, payment processing, and quality control is surely worth something .

The platform development is seriously one of the worst in the market, most apps would be fine with Stripe and what QC?

Re: Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

#279

Post by londons_explore »

pacifika wrote: post #276
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find headlines like this much more appropriate when placed in terms of days of revenue: "Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near 2 days of revenue!" I feel like fines aren't even an appropriate remedy for this. They're both inherently arbitrary and not something that actually fixes it. And that combination gives governments a perverse incentive, because they get $2B to put in their own pockets…

Imagine the response if the uk tried to break up apple

I'd love it if a government would decide that the hardware side of the company needs to split from the software side.

Suddenly we could buy macos to run in a VM.

Or we could buy iPhones running android.

Re: Apple loses UK App Store monopoly case, penalty might near $2B

#280

Post by realusername »

chongli wrote: post #42
someotherperson wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of a fee do you think you should pay to install applications on your computer? The same amount as that. Or provide alternative ways to install software. This is a problem of their own creation.

As soon as you open the door to side-loading, you'll have scammers and data-siphoners force all their users to side-load so that they can completely bypass Apple's privacy controls and security features. The entire iOS ecosystem is built on the App Store review process as a gatekeeper for entitlements and the capabilities they grant (through API access). How do you solve that problem for side-loaded apps?

Apple gets most of it's appstore money from very shady casino-like game apps which I'm unconfortable giving to my family.

If there's any benevolent gatekeeping, I'm not seeing it.

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