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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

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Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#271

Post by philipallstar »

DanielHB wrote: post #267
SXX wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia also have very good digital services. Now in one go government can send you conscription notification and immediately block your from leaving country as well as revoke driver license, block your banks and even phone numbers. Also since all the data available about you in one place any malicious actor who can bribe someone with access can immediately get all your data: passport info and tax id, addresses, work…

The judicial system is the one who is supposed to prevent abuses of power like this. What you are proposing is essentially security through obscurity, if the data is fragmented all over the place on different institutions it is really hard to be exploited in the government, but still totally can be. Confidential data can have better security checks and encryption layers so it is accessible only by the citizen itself…

> What you are proposing is essentially security through obscurity

It's a great way to combat bureacracies. It only doesn't work against smart people, such as computer hackers.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#272

Post by philipallstar »

AJRF wrote: post #53
danaris wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really rough part is that while the Democratic Party in the US is a weak slightly-left-of-center party, the Labour Party in the UK is basically a right-of-center party with decreasing amounts of daylight between them and the Tories. In particular, there is no major political party in the UK that supports trans rights, which is devastating to that community there. (On the plus side, so far as I can tell, with the…

It's becoming increasingly confusing to me who any of the parties actually represent. The more left leaning people I know are foaming at the mouth over how Labour have operated since being elected, all moderates (outside London) I know tend to lean Conservative (though that party seems to be AWOL since the election) and the only party I hear that is gaining any popularity is Reform, and they are doing so at an alarmi…

> and Labour seem hell bent on alienating any one who isn't centre-right

Raising the deficit massively more than the predicted massive deficit raise is definitely not a centre-right-pleasing move. It's just to buy all the NHS worker votes.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#273

Post by teamonkey »

SilverElfin wrote: post #139
teamonkey wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot be arrested for sending “any message online that anyone could find insulting or offensive”. That’s not what the law says. You can be arrested for spreading hate speech, inciting violence, sending illegal media or harassment online. All of the arrests mentioned in this thread in relation to these acts have been campaigns of intimidation, harassment and calls to violence, not simply saying something “insulti…

> All of the arrests mentioned in this thread in relation to these acts have been campaigns of intimidation, harassment and calls to violence, not simply saying something “insulting or offensive” This is false. But even if it weren’t, it would be unjust. Determinations like “hate speech” are subjective, and have no place in law concerning speech. Without free speech, there is no democracy.

There’s a big difference between being free to criticise the government and those who define and enforce laws, and being free to say anything to or about another citizen without repercussion, even if it may cause them harm.

The people mentioned here who were arrested due to violations of the communications acts are definitely the latter. The people arrested in peaceful protests for being associated with Palestine Action or Just Stop Oil are the former.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#274

Post by philipallstar »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #214

I’m a bit surprised that this of all things has received over 2m signatures already and yet we (the UK) have been passing far more dangerous legislation recently where the general public didn’t seem to care. I wonder if it’s because “ID cards” is an issue that has been around for some time and is perhaps more easily understood than other erosions of privacy and freedoms that are a more subtle.

That's exactly it.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#275

Post by TimorousBestie »

pipes wrote: post #229
TimorousBestie wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> based on your financial decisions A lot of individuals saw their credit scores decline during the Great Recession, even if they weren’t involved in subprime lending. This myth that credit scores are entirely due to your own financial decisions is up there with myths people believe about names or time zones.

Was that related to their social interactions and associated with or being related to political activists? That's how China's scoring works.

I have no insight into how a closed-source algorithm reaches its conclusions. I can only tell you how it behaves.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#276

Post by panstromek »

dazc wrote: post #72
panstromek wrote: post #50

I don't understand the problem. How is this different from all other identifiers, physical or digital, that most goverments already have?

The likelihood that it will become tied to your bank account, credit file, etc in a way which isn't currently possible with physical forms of id such as passports and driving licences.

That didn't really clear anything to me. These things are already connected. "The likelihood" is just handwavy concern but it doesn't tell me anything about why is this a concern for this system specifically. I still don't see what makes this system different.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#277

Post by Avamander »

SXX wrote: post #248
yaro330 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if this wasn't possible before digital ID was introduced. The only difference was that you got a conscription notice after you tried to leave and realised that you can't.

Blocking all the banks and everything? Nope it wasn't possible. You need to build a lot of tech first to implement digital Gulag.

Not possible? You're saying countries without digital IDs can't freeze assets in the same country?

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#278

Post by Avamander »

iamnothere wrote: post #137
majormajor wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a red-herring. Does a government need a digital ID to do that? Many do that with the "free market" of publicly-tradable information + pre-existing government IDs already used for certain things. I don't know for sure how much the UK government is purchasing all that, but there's a lot of cameras and tech tracking in the country already, like those of us across the pond also are watched with. It won't rever…

Yes, governments do need a centralized common identity if they intend to build something like a social credit system. Those without adequate experience dealing with the US system, for instance, may assume that the government already has your info and thus such a system is redundant. However, this is simply not the case. US government systems are a hodgepodge of different systems built by different vendors, over diffe…

> Yes, governments do need a centralized common identity if they intend to build something like a social credit system.

Which the US already has to a very large extent with the Social Security system.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#279

Post by VBprogrammer »

dmazin wrote: post #265
VBprogrammer wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. I'm not too bothered Digital ID cards, I was mildly annoyed by the idea of actual ID cards (manly the cost) but as a free digital app, I don't have many objections. I've seen it from colleagues in Denmark. If they manage to build in some zero knowledge proof of age I might even support it. But how this is supposed to stop immigration, illegal or otherwise, is beyond me.

Why should we stop immigration?

I mean it's obvious to anyone who isn't an idiot that we shouldn't. However, populist parties banging the drum on this are looking likely to be at least the second biggest party in the next general election (and that comes with some wishful thinking given the recent polls). Labour's approach seems to be to validate their scaremongering but to claim they can deal with it without going full on Third Reich...

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#280

Post by phatfish »

dijit wrote: post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

I'd love to know how this "march towards authoritarianism" actually manifests in the real world. Not just in the head space of podcast grifters and privacy nuts.

I've lived in the UK my whole life. Multiple other countries have liberated themselves and then returned to authoritarian governments within my lifetime.

Strangely this hasn't happened in the UK, plenty of people trying to wish it into existence though.

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