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Framework Laptop 16

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Re: Framework Laptop 16

#271

Post by dangus »

tomwheeler wrote: post #224
9x39 wrote: post #140

Anyone using Framework for a daily driver that can compare to an M-series Macbook? Specifically, battery life on your OS. Does anything compare to a MBP these days? From a value proposition, it seems good. Our group definitely goes through keyboards and mainboards from spilled tea at least annually it seems, but AppleCare is just a no-brainer, and away we go. I still drive on my original M1 at home without complaint,…

I have an M2 Max MBP for work and a Framework 16 for home. Build quality of the MBP is better. The machine feels more solid. The battery life is better, although to be fair, I run Linux on the Framework so the hardware itself isn't the only difference. The Framework 16 wins hands-down when it comes to ports, one of my biggest pain points with any Apple laptop in the last 10 years. It has six of them and I can mostly…

I don't think the build quality is very far off in any sort of terms that matter. Sure, Apple gives you a hollowed out block of aluminum and that's really nice and fancy but that doesn't really matter in any tangible way except feeling nice.

Framework has pretty minimal keyboard deck flex and other measures of build quality that actually impact usage. I think it fares better than a good chunk of PC competitors like the ThinkPad T14.

The only thing Framework really needs is a haptic trackpad and it'd be pretty much there in terms of the build feel. I also like how Apple puts the air intakes on the side rather than the bottom where they're frequently blocked by a lap or a soft surface.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#272

Post by dangus »

Deuter8 wrote: post #74
miloignis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another consideration that has really come true for me is repairs - I accidentally spilled a bottle of gin over my framework and was able to only replace the main board for under half the cost of a brand new machine. I'm very happy with my framework!

We can admire Framework's commitment to repairable hardware without pretending that it's unique. I spilled my drink of choice on my Alienware X17 and was able to replace the keyboard for $100 from AliExpress armed only with a Phillips head.

Is it an OEM part with the same quality as the original? Will AliExpress carry the part 5 years from now? (Framework systems are backward/forward compatible).

If you spilled your drink on your Framework keyboard from your 13" system that you bought 5 years ago and you bought a replacement from Framework, you'd be getting a better and improved model of the keyboard. Same deal with issues like cracked screens, webcams, and batteries - since the original Framework came out, the company has upgraded those parts, and makes them available to people who bought the original system.

AliExpress 3rd party battery replacements are basically never as good as OEM.

That level of support is is unique and you are trying to downplay it as something that other OEM offers, and I think that's a little bit facetious.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#273

Post by bsimpson »

jqr- wrote: post #263
bsimpson wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I clicked the "Already an owner" link, it sent me to the Romanian page when I'm in the US on a desktop device that has never been abroad: https://frame.work/ro/en/marketplace?compatibility%5B%5D=lap...

Same thing happened to me. It's because the original link is to the Romanian site.

Good catch! Didn't realize he wasn't OP.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#275

Post by mpyne »

bsimpson wrote: post #241
nrp wrote: post #4

I'm happy to answer questions around the new product.

When I clicked the "Already an owner" link, it sent me to the Romanian page when I'm in the US on a desktop device that has never been abroad: https://frame.work/ro/en/marketplace?compatibility%5B%5D=lap...

The original link for this HN discussion goes to the Romanian page, so that's probably why.

This link may work better for you: https://frame.work/laptop16

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#276

Post by nine_k »

edgineer wrote: post #162
nrp wrote: post #4

I'm happy to answer questions around the new product.

I'm very happy to see Framework lead the USB power delivery pack by supporting 240W, 48V/5A charging on the Framework 16. As the first company to ship laptops using this spec, what problems or quirks, if any, have you seen from 48V charging in the field?

How thick must be the cable that delivers 48V @ 5A? I suppose not much thicker than normal, but still? Does this require a specialty cable to achieve that?

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#277

Post by ethersteeds »

bodge5000 wrote: post #82

I'm glad the AMD GPU option still exists, I don't have great experience with NVIDIA on Linux. The rest of the upgrades, like the new top cover and keyboard, are very welcome

I came to say the same thing. In the late 2010s I ran Linux on a work-issued Lenovo P50 with a Nvidia Quadro M2000M. It was such a miserable experience that I swore to never own another NVIDIA product again.

Given both Framework and NVIDIA's checkered histories around Linux driver support, I see no reason to revisit that, but it is interesting to see the voices in this thread with positive NVIDIA experience.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#278

Post by jonkoops »

fooker wrote: post #259
bodge5000 wrote: post #82

I'm glad the AMD GPU option still exists, I don't have great experience with NVIDIA on Linux. The rest of the upgrades, like the new top cover and keyboard, are very welcome

FYI All current and future Nvidia drivers are open source, since blackwell.

But they are not in the actual Linux kernel, and are a separate module that does not adhere to Linux kernel code conventions. It also has no user-space driver that isn't NVIDIA's proprietary driver. Anything further open-source such as NVK is not being worked on by NVIDIA, but by other 3rd parties.

Compared to AMD and Intel, NVIDIA is very much not an 'out of the box', or stable experience.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#279

Post by nagisa »

panzerboiler wrote: post #78
jayd16 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume some gestures are simply not possible. Like click-to-drag and scroll simultaneously. Not every app handles gutter-hover-to-scroll in a usable way. On a mouse or a pad with buttons, you can keep the left click held down and scroll with the wheel or gesture. Uni-pads make this impossible.

You assume it wrong. You can click-to-drag and scroll simultaneously without issues on an Apple trackpad.

I have the external apple trackpad (the most recent usb-c version at that) and this click-to-drag and then attempting to scroll does not work on Linux. Seems like this might have been a particular attention to detail on part of macOS devs.

As far as I know touchpad implementations just report finger locations and its up to software to interpret what a combination of these gestures means.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#280

Post by nine_k »

nrp wrote: post #119
Deuter8 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I literally just want a touchpad with buttons. These new 'clickpads' are the bane of my existence. They are so much slower, and certain workflows are impossible. I must use an external mouse now with modern laptops. Why can no laptop manufacturer even make this an option ?

The Touchpad Module is easy to replace, and the CAD and interface specs we've published on https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-16 are likely detailed enough that anyone can try making one!

Aside: what if frame.work site had a place for popular vote for features? (With proper registration, etc.) E.g. Digital Ocean has this, and it seems helpful, they follow up on some of the most upvoted feature requests. It's sort of free market research.
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