The sound quality is worse than 128Kb MP3. It might fool some people on their smartphones barely paying attention, but "studio-grade music" is an outright lie.
Eleven Music
271–280 of 283 posts
Re: Eleven Music
#272The thing that really boils my blood with these generative AI services, is they are essentially creating throw away, algorithmically generated content that no one else is ever going to use (In this case music) but they expect you to subscribe to their services and pay them literally forever to use the schlock their algo churns out.
It just feels so profoundly wrong and exploitative of both the artists work the models have been trained on, and the users actually using these services, that some generative AI uses a few cents worth of electricity and a few more cents of allocated overhead to spit out a song, yet the user is then expected to pay $20 a month or whatever, forever, if they want to use that song in a say a YouTube video.
If I pay an algorithm to make me a song, I should own the copyright to that song, not the company that made the algorithm, and it should cost like a dollar at most. Until someone can offer a service that works this way, or I can implement my own self-hosted algorithm that can do this for me, I have less than zero interest in these kinds of services. They are a ripoff of the highest order, and actively hostile to their users in terms of their predatory pricing models.
Re: Eleven Music
#273I really hope we move on from these boil-the-ocean models. I want something more collaborative and even iterative. I was having a conversation with a former bandmate. He was talking about a bunch of songs he is working on. He can play guitar, a bit of bass and can sing. That leaves drums. He wants a model where he can upload a demo and it either returns a stem for a drum track or just combines his demo with some drum…
do you have a point of view of this type of collaborative approach applied to other areas, for example, collective understanding for groups of people? We are working on something in that space.
The amount I have to say on this topic would be inappropriate for a Hacker News comment. But some brief and unstructured thoughts I can offer.
For collaboration I believe that _lineage_ is important. Not just a one-shot output artifact but a series of outputs connected in some kind of connected graph. It is the difference between a single intervention/change vs. a _process_. This provides a record which can act as an audit trail. In this "lineage" as I would call it, there are conversations with LLMs (prompts + context) and there are outputs.
Let's imagine the original topic, audio, with the understanding that the abstract idea could apply to anything (including mental health). I have a conversation with an LLM about some melodic ideas and the output is a score. I take the score and add it as context to a new conversation with an LLM and the output is a demo. I take the demo and the score then add it to a new conversation with an LLM and the output is a rhythm section. etc.
What we are describing here is an evolving _process_ of collaboration. We change our view from "I did this one thing, here is the result" to "I am _doing_ this set of things over time".
The output of that "doing" is literally a graph. You have multiple inputs to each node (conversation/context) which can be traced back to initial "seed" elements.
From a collaborative perspective, each node in this graph is somewhat independent. One person can create the score. Another person can take the score and create a demo. etc.
Re: Eleven Music
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cool, a movie quote. Nice.
Pity the movie wasn't Lisztomania , 'cause, like, you know, Liszt used to be a bit like a pop musician. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisztomania_(film) * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peJ_ncxXung
Liszt was a very different musician in a very different time than Handel, and he was mostly just cribbing off of Paganini when it came to these antics.
Re: Eleven Music
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't have any special industry experience. I went on a tear a few weeks ago and watched a bunch of Rick Beato's videos on YouTube. I didn't know the guy before running across his work, but he has 5 million subscribers and he sure sounds like he knows what he's talking about. He's been a music producer for 30 years. Anyway, he was the one that made the point that we don't sign rock bands anymore in the sense that t…
Rick Beato is fine but he’s entirely disconnected from contemporary guitar-based music. I agree entirely with the OP, the quality-expense ratio has never been better for this type of music.
Like with software, I'm thinking there's two different discussions: what powers the industry vs. what is possible for hobbyists.
While the industry in software is obsessed with React and K8s, hackers still like self-hosting PHP apps. Same with music. The industry is powered by highly efficient teams that write, produce, and perform music at scale for a global audience, and that's totally different from contemporary guitar-based music (I suspect!) What's possible is very different from what makes money.
Re: Eleven Music
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Händel used to be a bit like a pop musician. Handel was never a "bit like a pop musician." This fundamentally misunderstands how music during his time, mostly funded and enjoyed under religion and wealthy patronage contexts, was listened to. Mostly only the wealthy listened to his works, and those elite audiences were prone to viciously enforcing stylistic norms. The only real way the working class heard his works w…
I did not want to argue in favor of AI-generated music (although of course, an artist can use any tool). Regarding Händel, I think you are misunderstanding my argument. What I meant is that, to my knowledge, his music was, at his times, a lot more pleasing to the popular tastes among his audience than, for example, Bach's. The size or class of that audience was not my point, or that the production and commissioning o…
>Some art is "challenging", but still artistically uninteresting and uninspired.
I agree and would include 12 tone music (and specifically the Darmstadt School) in this category, as well as others like Xenakis. I think they should have been laughed out of performance halls and shunned, just like so many hack musicians were pre-20th century before classical music lost its gatekeepers (almost all art did with the death of modernism and the fragmentation of cultural narratives)
I think Handel is still a rough choice. He was more popular than Bach, but only because Bach was writing in somewhat outmoded styles for his time. Handel worked for aristocratic (and sometimes royal, see: the backstory of his Water Music as a way to repair relations with the new king of England) patrons and thus had to keep up with fashion. It was never about mass appeal but about making the person with the purse strings happy for Handel.
Re: Eleven Music
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pity the movie wasn't Lisztomania , 'cause, like, you know, Liszt used to be a bit like a pop musician. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisztomania_(film) * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peJ_ncxXung
Liszt was a very different musician in a very different time than Handel, and he was mostly just cribbing off of Paganini when it came to these antics.
But does Klaus Kinski's Paganini have the quotability and outrageous lighthearted over the top-ness of Russell's Lisztomania ?
There's a 2013 film The Devil's Violinist in the mix now apparently.
Re: Eleven Music
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a stupid argument, because even with the most automatic camera you have to point it at something and make a decision about what to frame in. AI music is more like buying a bunch of old unlabelled records from a bargain bin and then praising yourself whenever one of them turns out to be worth listening to.
Of course it's a stupid argument, but it's exactly what the ancestors of today's AI naysayers said when photography became practical. Then again, it's possible for an art form to exhaust its own possibilities. To the extent that "prompt engineering" is sufficient to generate any music or artwork we have in mind, that seems like an indication that we've reached that point. To the extent that it's not sufficient, that…
ancestors of today's AI naysayers
This is dead wrong. People were open to using it as a tool then as they are now, but not all offerings are of equal value. I know a lot of musicians who would be into an AI 'session buddy' who could play along with them or serve as a tutor for advanced concepts. The existing offerings in the music space are at the level of Deepmind when it made everything look like a dog on acid.
As I've written before, proponents of AI music as an infinity jukebox completely miss the point of how music works. In a social context people want a jukebox to provide favorite (or at least famous) sounds that everyone can vibe along to. People listening on their own either replay their nostalgic favorites or iterate on them if they have a strong genre preference. AI could in theory replace a DJ at a nightclub where not everyone needs to know every song if the vibe is good and the beats are tight, but they will still want someone to focus on. Beyond an intimate small group of people, parties where loud music is blasting off a playlist (or DAT or CD changer) with nobody actively DJing don't work because people quickly feel that if the music is changing independently of the dancefloor then the collective connection is broken.
Re: Eleven Music
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course it's a stupid argument, but it's exactly what the ancestors of today's AI naysayers said when photography became practical. Then again, it's possible for an art form to exhaust its own possibilities. To the extent that "prompt engineering" is sufficient to generate any music or artwork we have in mind, that seems like an indication that we've reached that point. To the extent that it's not sufficient, that…
ancestors of today's AI naysayers This is dead wrong. People were open to using it as a tool then as they are now, but not all offerings are of equal value. I know a lot of musicians who would be into an AI 'session buddy' who could play along with them or serve as a tutor for advanced concepts. The existing offerings in the music space are at the level of Deepmind when it made everything look like a dog on acid. As…
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Re: Eleven Music
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rick Beato is fine but he’s entirely disconnected from contemporary guitar-based music. I agree entirely with the OP, the quality-expense ratio has never been better for this type of music.
Like with software, I'm thinking there's two different discussions: what powers the industry vs. what is possible for hobbyists. While the industry in software is obsessed with React and K8s, hackers still like self-hosting PHP apps. Same with music. The industry is powered by highly efficient teams that write, produce, and perform music at scale for a global audience, and that's totally different from contemporary g…
Well said