Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

craigmod.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 512 posts

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#271

Post by TrappedInCorner »

cedws wrote: post #116

I live in Tokyo at the moment. I get the overtourism thing, because after you've been here even just a little while (months) you start to have a disdain for tourists that do tourist things. Like breaking the rules, being a nuisance, swarming parts of the city. I don't know what can be done about it though. Japan's economy is in trouble, and the tourist money helps and hurts at the same time. It creates tax revenue, y…

I find it amusing when Japan wants to be a homogenous society everybody respects their right to have that opinion. But when a european country voices the same wish, everybody loses their mind.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#272

Post by dfxm12 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #231
cedws wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My home country, the UK, has already been through this cultural erosion which is why I respect Japan's right to defend its own. London in particular has become a place for everybody and at the same time for nobody. It's a city of people of different values and wavelengths with very little shared strata compared with Tokyo.

Funny to see this sentiment here but in the USA if a conservative-leaning politician talks about "preserving our culture" or saying that immigrants should "assimilate" they are accused of being a code-word (or even an overt) racist.

US conservatives get no benefit of the doubt thanks to years of racism and racist policy. It is clear that they are reactionaries looking to codify white supremacy.

However, American culture has moved on (a lot) from that though. For several generations, it has been described as a "melting pot" or understood through the lens of The New Colossus mounted on the Statue of Liberty.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#273

Post by Karrot_Kream »

keiferski wrote: post #16

There are a ton of articles about over-tourism in Japan lately, and after thinking about it for awhile, I think you can boil it down to two things other than the obvious (the yen losing value, etc.) 1. The extreme success of Japanese culture via media, specifically abroad. This wasn't just a thing that happened accidentally, it was in some sense planned for decades. See for example the Cool Japan initiative: https://…

Strongly disagree with #2. I think every foreigner who visits the big Japanese cities gets charmed by its quirky land use and small shops, but the reality of Japan is that most things are owned by conglomerates and that depopulation means that increasingly blue collar work is being done by immigrants (sound familiar?) Japanese lifestyle resembles America from the 2000s in broad strokes. China and India still have a lot of their older culture present. Indians often dress in clothing that's recognizably non-Western in every day situations and both countries have food cultures that are pretty different from the West.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#274

Post by zarzavat »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #56
pilingual wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/us-trips-to-japan-surp...

AFAICT, Germans & Brits outnumber Americans in Paris and Chinese outnumber Americans in Tokyo. So American numbers aren't particularly significant, IMO. But seanmcdirmid in a sibling comment is likely correct, and I'm possibly wrong.

Hmm. As a Brit I would not consider a trip to Paris to be "tourism". It's just a trip over the border. Yes they speak a different language there but it's a language that I was forced to study in school. No doubt Germans feel the same way.

Going to Spain on the other hand would be tourism. I don't speak Spanish, it's not a neighbouring country, you arrive in an airport, etc.

If an American or a Chinese person goes to Paris I feel they likely have different motivations and itinerary than a Brit, Belgian, etc who is taking the train possibly only for the day.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#275

Post by XenophileJKO »

Tainnor wrote: post #250
impendia wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to live in Japan in 1999-2001, and I was just there again for a month this summer. Anyway, I disagree with you: Japan is still a miracle in terms of the quality and service you get for the money. I saw this many times over. Perhaps not in Kyoto, or in the most touristed areas of Tokyo. Or in whatever random place got featured in some anime, or whatnot. The article mentions Yamaguchi, Toyama, Morioka, etc., and…

The time of the year probably matters too. I didn't find Japan to be terribly overcrowded when I went this February. Certain areas (and the minuscule Kyoto buses) were, but that happens in every tourist location. I also went to places like Beppu or Kagoshima where I barely saw any tourists.

Yes, Shikoku and Kyushu are both very pleasant from my experience. Shikoku felt the least visited. In Matsuyama, I saw only a handful of western tourists and even those were mostly blended families probably visiting relatives.

It was really pleasant. I keep trying to move farther off the beaten path on each trip.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#276

Post by missedthecue »

tayo42 wrote: post #242
steveBK123 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and as I frequently say.. those who thinks US is the most racist country in the world should visit 5-10 other countries and report back.

The US is building modern day concentration camps for immigrants. Maybe the country isnt actively killing the out groups right now like a handful of other countries but I'd say the racism is extreme and up there.

But the immigrants aren't racial or ethnic outgroups per se. Many are incidentally Latino, yes, but so is the current Secretary of State.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#277

Post by returningfory2 »

gtowey wrote: post #245
timr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the Ramen place (I can't believe that they wouldn't take cash?), but I agree with you that more places are doing this kind of "two markets" stuff -- it's even becoming official, in that now there's officially sanctioned "foreigner pricing" for certain temples, shrines, and parks. There's also Google Maps and Yelp vs. Japan's local version (pretty much any review on the former two are useless, and h…

I think it's worse than that. I'm starting to think that there may not really be an ethical way to be a tourist in a foreign country. Especially coming from a high cost of living area to a lower one. Just being there puts you in economic competition with the locals. You can spend more on everything than everyone else and that raises their costs too. Especially housing and food. Those fancy resorts take all the prime…

I think there’s a zero sum fallacy in play here. For example you say “Those fancy resorts take all the prime real estate” but many resort towns in Mexico like Cancun were literally invented out of thin air for international tourism. The alternative reality is not “Cancun for the locals”; the alternative reality is no Cancun.

In general we have the ability to expand the amount of available housing/hotels/etc. to meet increased demand. It’s not a zero sum game.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#278

Post by returningfory2 »

deaddodo wrote: post #226
jayd16 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like if you smile and act friendly and dumb and American you get a lot of slack along with the Japanese shopkeeper version of an eye roll and a headpat.

This rule applies to most confucian/communal East Asian societies with individuals from the West. People aren't idiots, they realize cultures differ, so they're willing to give some slack; especially, with a culture they're somewhat familiar with through media (the US, for instance). With Japan and Korea (especially the latter) towards Americans, there's also a soft-unspoken rule (that sort of goes both ways) due to…

I struggle to believe this. How can the average Korean tell the difference between a white American and a white Brit?

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#279

Post by jlaiwejrlij »

Social media is why we can't have nice things

I left Austin in 2020 and the social-media-powered tourism boom there from 2010 on was insane. In a decade, the entire east side of the city went from low income black and hispanic families to airbnbs and sterile cinder-block condos and bars. Downtown went from old dive bars and music venues in old brick buildings to high-price-but-not-high-quality residential high-rises and FAANG skyscrapers. South Congress went from kitschy shops and local restaurants to glass and steel instagram food factories. All the things I loved about it in the early 2000s are gone.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#280

Post by missedthecue »

vagrantJin wrote: post #5

Fascinating. I have no idea what the fascination with Japan, I must have missed something.

Very successful cultural exports in the 1980s, 90s, and early 2000s. Now the kids who grew up in that era are young adults and have some money.

There are many low(ish) crime, polite, picturesque destinations, rich in art, culture, and history, but Kazakhstan never exported anime.

Post reply on HN