Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses • Hacker News Board

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#141

Post by lofaszvanitt » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 3:32 PM UTC

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #70

bryanlarsen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And a few more of the seedier bars just have a “no foreigners” sign out front. Those have existed long before tourism to Japan became common. Those signs were there when the vast majority of foreigners in Japan were English teachers and soldiers. Many tabehodai (all-you-can-eat) and most nomihodai (all-you-can-drink) places had them.

> no foreigners It's such a contrast to USA, where I doubt that such a thing would even be legal. And also the bit about no tattoos. That's lawsuit city.

You have to protect your culture. USA has a 250 year history while Japan has 10x of that.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#142

Post by parpfish » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 3:33 PM UTC

harimau777 wrote: post #123

clait wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And quite possibly also because UK beach towns are generally sad and cold (except for Cornwall and Devon for two weeks per year), compared to Spain’s? Signed, someone living in the UK.

This is something that I feel doesn't get discussed in a lot of these sorts of discussions (overtourism, local food, etc.). Reducing your carbon/social footprint by consuming locally is MUCH more enjoyable in some locations than in others.

if you find your local region unenjoyable, change your local region

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#143

Post by Der_Einzige » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 3:34 PM UTC

harimau777 wrote: post #109

parpfish wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the more interesting story here wouldn’t be the “over tourism” of the globally desirable internet-famous locations— It’s all the little regional resort towns and tourism destinations that are now ignored. All over the US are locations that used to be the place where a people would go for a three day weekend or summer getaway. But now they are ghost towns because the cost of travel and the algorithm have refra…

A lot of those tiny locations all over the US are in red states. Lots of people aren't going to want to go to locations where public infrastructure has been hollowed out and discrimination is legal.

Either I get "Southern Hospitality" AKA decently outwardly friendly people (if you're white) and people who actually donate to charity or I get good infrastructure and legal weed, but people who are anti-social and would piss on the homeless if it were legal.

You can't win. This is why folks travel in the first place.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#144

Post by steveBK123 » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 3:36 PM UTC

Visiting Japan in 2025 definitely had a different vibe than my 2010s visits. First of all, so many more foreigners, and multiple western languages overheard nearly anywhere I went.

And clearly some locals fairly annoyed by it, such that some weren't interested in engaging with a basic level Japanese speaker/listener like me.

I have basic enough speaking/reading/(and less so listening) ability to previously navigate smaller cities with little English speaking, pick a restaurant / order some food, make small talk with taxi drivers, and entertain middle aged locals who don't see a lot of westerners.

I also saw a lot more restaurants that had extremely limited set course only menus for non-japanese speakers, and no patience for someone with non-fluency to try the Japanese menu.

This trip I felt I could not get out of Tokyo fast enough. Parts of it just felt like every other tier 1 global city, and a passive aggressive unwelcomeness that wasn't to the level of Barcelona, but clearly different than 15 years ago.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#145

Post by steveBK123 » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 3:37 PM UTC

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #70

bryanlarsen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And a few more of the seedier bars just have a “no foreigners” sign out front. Those have existed long before tourism to Japan became common. Those signs were there when the vast majority of foreigners in Japan were English teachers and soldiers. Many tabehodai (all-you-can-eat) and most nomihodai (all-you-can-drink) places had them.

> no foreigners It's such a contrast to USA, where I doubt that such a thing would even be legal. And also the bit about no tattoos. That's lawsuit city.

Indeed, and as I frequently say.. those who thinks US is the most racist country in the world should visit 5-10 other countries and report back.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#146

Post by Freak_NL » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 3:37 PM UTC

_fat_santa wrote: post #122

I live in Colorado and we have a similar issue (though not nearly to the scale of Japan). The line about getting "TikTokked" really struck a chord because there have been a few places that have fallen to the same fate, spots that the locals only knew about are now filled to the brim with both locals and tourists from out of state. My rule now is when we travel somewhere, we look to see what all the viral places from…

> […] unless the place holds some incredible cultural significance (ie. The Louvre, Sagrada Família, etc).

Honestly, I give those a pass too. I don't want to go to Barcelona and exacerbate the problem of overtourism (same goes for Venice). Paris is doable of course, but there too I wouldn't consider the Louvre right now. Not with its employees holding strikes because of the overcrowding!

It's a big world, and there are plenty of places where I am welcome as a tourist. The experience is better in any case; I hate crowds.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#147

Post by sorcerer-mar » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 3:38 PM UTC

anonzzzies wrote: post #128

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who's ever worked in customer support will tell you that dealing with customer regularly sucks balls, even worse if they're foreign and don't know the local language, customs and etiquette so they annoy you and your local patrons while thinking they're entitled to because "we spend money here and support your economy", or even more worse if they're foreign and also intoxicated or acting up for the camera (soci…

I am in Spain (where people, imho wrongfully, think tourism is ruining everything) and I dont see the issue; my wife and myself make enough in the summer to not have anything to do the rest of the year. I have IT businesses which I scale back to run the pub in summer for 3 month. I don't really care about whatever they do as long as it is not fighting: the more drunk and loud they are, especially guys with girls, the…

Based on your other comment where you say "innit," I suspect you're not Spanish?

It sounds like you're a Brit who opened a pub in Spain for other Brits to get sloshed at. Is this wrong?

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#148

Post by sorcerer-mar » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 3:40 PM UTC

lbreakjai wrote: post #68

These sorts of critics always struck me as elitist and pretentious. If reminds me of those kids gatekeeping music genres and claiming you couldn't call yourself a fan unless you listened to the most obscure album of the most obscure band. Just a fashionable way to say you've been there and done that, and that you're above the hoi polloi. Popular cities, and popular attractions within, are popular for a reason.

> Popular cities, and popular attractions within, are popular for a reason.

Reasons which typically don't include "can sustain infinite visitors"

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#149

Post by deaddodo » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 3:40 PM UTC

TimorousBestie wrote: post #117

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no foreigners It's such a contrast to USA, where I doubt that such a thing would even be legal. And also the bit about no tattoos. That's lawsuit city.

> It's such a contrast to USA, where I doubt that such a thing would even be legal. The sign itself is probably protected speech. As for the policy, it is probably also legal here. Private businesses have broad rights to refuse individual customers without stating a reason. Fabricating a legitimate business reason to deny service to a particular group of customers is usually trivial, as well. Proving it was fabricate…

> Private businesses have broad rights to refuse individual customers without stating a reason.

They don't have to state a reason. The entire foundation of the common law system is to have a court decide intent; not be technically bound by your words.

It would only take showing a continued behavior of denying people in a discriminatory manner (e.g. 10% of your visitors are foreigners, but 95% of the people barred entry are in that group) to fine/sanction/shut down the business.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#150

Post by steveBK123 » Fri, Jul 11, 2025, 3:40 PM UTC

_fat_santa wrote: post #130

CalRobert wrote: post #6

Maybe travel is just too cheap and easy? I like the democratisation of globe trotting that has happened but it certainly has had negative consequences

IMO it's not that travel is to cheap, it's that social media has created "hot spots" around the globe. Take a random example: 5 cute coffee shops around Paris, all of them have that Parisian vibe that tourists are looking for but one of them had an influencer walk in and make some content. Now that one shop is all over the internet and tourists are flocking to it, creating huge lines and overwhelming the business, wh…

Yeah I argue with my wife about this. She lives her lists, and trawls her social media feeds for stuff.

I prefer to have a loose agenda of which neighborhoods are interesting, pick one and wander it for an afternoon. Odds are we will find lots of interesting things.

We usually meet in the middle and do a mix. More and more she admits in retrospect to having stressed herself out with building and following an agenda.