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Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

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Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#271

Post by shubhamkrm »

dangus wrote: post #250
onion2k wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is the last man standing before a ChromeOS world. Except it isn't. Maybe I'm being slightly obtuse here, but the world is not "Chrome Vs Safari". It's "Chrome Vs Safari Vs native apps". If Safari dies we'll be in a world of "Chrome Vs native apps", and that is what Apple wants. Browsers represent a way to deliver software to users that's outside of Apple's revenue mechanisms. Apple have every incentive to keep…

How many Regular Joe people are using progressive web apps in the first place? I think Android users also prefer apps over websites and PWAs anyway. I would guess that if I took a poll of all my real life not-technology friends that zero of them use a PWA, know what it is, or even have one installed by accident. I think that this idea that Apple is making Safari deliberately shitty to stop PWAs from taking over may h…

> How many Regular Joe people are using progressive web apps in the first place?

I know several of them, because Google doesn’t let e-commerce apps in my country sell cigarettes and other products containing tobacco. The android version of these apps guide users into installing their PWA version if they wish to order such products.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#272

Post by pjmlp »

fenomas wrote: post #199
pjmlp wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely is, I was also there, just like everyone was doing IE only sites, not only plenty of people do the same with ChromeOS vision of the Web, they ship Chrome alongside Electron crap. Safari is the last man standing before a ChromeOS world.

Considering Safari is mainly used on a platform where it's mandatory, I'm not sure "standing" is the term. Last man being propped up Weekend-at-Bernie's style?

It is, without iOS and related Safari, anyone doing Web can update their CV as ChromeOS Developer.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#273

Post by iforgotpassword »

jasode wrote: post #190
vetinari wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never seen this; however, youtube prefers pushing VP9 over H.264. Maybe your computer cannot use hardware decode for VP9 and can for H.264? (Since you mentioned, it is an older one). Maybe the h264ify extension would help. What firefox cannot do and chrome can is HDR playback.

> however, youtube prefers pushing VP9 over H.264. Maybe your computer cannot use hardware decode for VP9 and can for H.264? No, even if I download the 4k 60fps file using yt-dlp with forced h264 codec settings locally to my harddrive, Firefox still can't play the mp4 file smoothly. So it's not really a streaming issue or h264 vs VP9 codec issue. The Firefox core engine doesn't seem optimized to playback 4k and 8k hi…

Interesting, I recently had the opposite experience. Wanted to enable hw decode on an older Intel system and only got it to work on Firefox. Tried several different instructions from the web on how to force chrome to ignore any blacklists for drivers or anything, but still no luck.

Oh and a while ago I noticed (on a more modern system) that enabling hw decode makes chrome ignore the aspect ratio of the video and displays it like the pixels are square. Again Firefox handled it fine.

(Linux, h264 in both cases)

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#274

Post by alganet »

Thiez wrote: post #269
alganet wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's ask the next why. Why make the interaction with the DOM stateless? Because walking the tree sucks, and more specifically building upon the tree sucks a lot (createElement, appendChild, etc). That's why innerHTML, which was _not_ a standard, became a standard after being widely implemented and used. So, the solution was to almost never read the actual tree, because it is slow and weird. This was solved before Re…

> Remember when we parsed JSON with libs written in JS? No, when was that? Because it was always possible to `eval(jsonString)` and get the parsed result. Indeed, that was the whole point.

It was always possible but never safe.

We're oldschool, not savages!

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#275

Post by Aloisius »

spartanatreyu wrote: post #240
aalimov_ wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don’t understand what you’re trying to say about Safari. After reading the response (outlining draft vs support dates) to your initial comment it seems like the reality is that your primary complaints dont make much sense. Maybe there are some other features that they were late to start supporting. Seems more like other browsers jumped on new features before they were standardized, and maybe that is at the he…

It *is* misleading because Apple saying that Safari supports a feature doesn't actually mean that the feature in question actually works. Rather than go through every single point (because I don't have all day), I'll just pick one: > IndexedDB API > W3C recommended standard in 2015. Supported in Safari in 2014. No. It didn't work in 2014, it wasn't working until 2016. (see: https://gist.github.com/nolanlawson/08eb857…

> That feature that every other browser had working since 2012 wasn't "working" until almost 2018, for Safari, and worse than that 6 year difference, they lied about it working.

Chrome, Firefox and IE had buggy implementations in 2012. Firefox didn't support IndexedDB from worker threads and would corrupt data. Chrome couldn't write blobs and would corrupt data.

Safari certainly required more workarounds due to more bugs than anyone, but the truth is that the IndexedDB standard sucks. For goodness sake, there's still no standard for locking to prevent corruption between two tabs (while everyone supports the Web Locking API now, it's not actually a standard).

We would have all been better off if we tossed it and replaced it with WebSQL.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#276

Post by the_other »

spartanatreyu wrote: post #240
aalimov_ wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don’t understand what you’re trying to say about Safari. After reading the response (outlining draft vs support dates) to your initial comment it seems like the reality is that your primary complaints dont make much sense. Maybe there are some other features that they were late to start supporting. Seems more like other browsers jumped on new features before they were standardized, and maybe that is at the he…

It *is* misleading because Apple saying that Safari supports a feature doesn't actually mean that the feature in question actually works. Rather than go through every single point (because I don't have all day), I'll just pick one: > IndexedDB API > W3C recommended standard in 2015. Supported in Safari in 2014. No. It didn't work in 2014, it wasn't working until 2016. (see: https://gist.github.com/nolanlawson/08eb857…

> So you could spend 6 months working on a project, release your product, then get inundated with bad reviews because it didn't work for half the population with iPhones.

You spent 6 months developing against an unstandardised technology on a platform with well documented compatibility complexities, and you didn’t test it on one of your larger target devices?

I think that’s on you, friend.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#277

Post by robocat »

thephyber wrote: post #178
fellowniusmonk wrote: post #96

No not even close by every single possible measure. I was there, I suffered through it, Google would have to make TONS of hostile moves for that fact to change. I have no interest in the arguments of a closed source subscription service that wants me to switch to the bundled browser of the wealthiest company on earth's most popular consumer OS, lecturing me about using the 4th wealthiest company on earth's browser th…

I think some of the complaints in the article were about websites using User Agent string to detect compatibility, rather than individual feature sniffing. In that small complaint, I would agree. But I think the fault is mostly with the website owners, not with the browser.

> rather than individual feature sniffing

Feature sniffing generally doesn't work for anything interactive. Many bugs in controls, animation, events are not sniffable. Yet developers still need to deliver workarounds.

Feature sniffing works best for static HTML documents - and even then the code to actually do the sniffing can be demonic code (a side-effect or correlation or an obscure discovery).

Using just feature sniffing is a great goal but it simply isn't a perfect solution. I do believe us developers should avoid parsing user agents unless there is no other good solution (never a crutch for lazy bad developers).

And detecting the browser for obsolete browsers is usually a perfectly fine solution. The bugs won't get fixed and the browser won't change. There are exceptions of course!!!

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#278

Post by nightski »

lxgr wrote: post #148
nightski wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this because I have used Firefox exclusively since it first came out and never run into broken sites. What exactly are these exotic sites you are visiting that break in Firefox? You mentioned an elusive government website but I have used many (IRS, SSA, Edu, etc...)

Elusive to you, essential to people living in my country. (You can't do your taxes without it.) And look no further than Google themselves: https://labs.google.com/search/install

Maybe that explains it, I don't use Google search at all. I do use gmail/youtube however.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#279

Post by webprofusion »

Yes. By virtue of most other popular browsers being based on it (chromium), with the exceptions of Safari and Firefox. The controller of the project is still Google.

Safari trails chrome because Google didn't like Apple being in charge of the Webkit repo, which led to the Blink fork (the Chromium engine).

Firefox is still a great browser, but it has fallen back to square one on popularity.

From an anti-trust perspective Google should offer to fund their competitors directly instead of splitting the browser out, the eventual result should be revisions to web standards specs to ensure they are correct and detailed enough to be accurately implemented, which in turn makes new browsers easier to implement. Eventually if specs are close to 100% correct it should be reasonable to generate new browser engines from them. Currently that's not possible due to chasms of ambiguity and contradiction, and because browsers like chrome occasionally implement their own design of stuff just because they want to.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#280

Post by redbell »

> Perhaps the browser with the most disruptive potential is from Microsoft with Edge... With Edge, Microsoft has a chance to claim the position of the disruptive alternate browser.

I believe moving from Chrome to Edge does not change a lot in terms of privacy, proprietary ecosystems, data mining practices, or other reasons that made you switch. In the end, it’s a transition from one tech giant to another of comparable scale with the same practices.

Safar? I don't think Apple has the intention to dominate this sector, so it won't push Safari beyond its current geography. All that it cares about is its * walled garden.

Firefox? Although I use it as my default browser, it is still far from mass adoption. The fact that they beg users to switch to Firefox* say it all: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38806270

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