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EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#271

Post by janice1999 »

dankai wrote: post #167

The current draft would cover every kind of service that allows people to exchange information so that every DM you send on reddit, twitter, discord, steam, ... would be have to be scanned. Not even the most totalitarian governments on this planet have tried to implement something like this. Also it sounds extremely illusory that the people exchanging CSAM wouldn't simply switch to private services knowing their mess…

> Not even the most totalitarian governments on this planet have tried to implement something like this.

Arguably North Korea since their RedStar OS had a kernel module that scanned all files and text looking for keywords like 'torture'. And if you're being compared to one of the most brutal and isolated dictatorships on Earth, things are not good.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#272

Post by janice1999 »

throwawayfear wrote: post #104
gpvos wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't, apart from this Chat Control.

Covid restrictions were significantly worse in the EU than USA, your government locked you all down and made it clear that they decide who works and who doesn’t. To be clear, the USA has some awful cities with those types of ideas too but it was far more rare. EU, Canada, and Australia showed they are teetering towards authoritarian surveillance states more than they are democracy. The more people put their head in t…

You fundamentally misunderstand the EU if you think any EU organization has the power to force lockdowns on individual countries.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#273

Post by account42 »

magicalhippo wrote: post #183
marcinzm wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> military security Wasn't that NATO (aka mostly the US)?

There's also the point that countries with close economic ties have more to lose by going to war with each other.

A point fully disproven by Putin by now.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#274

Post by dankai »

janice1999 wrote: post #271
dankai wrote: post #167

The current draft would cover every kind of service that allows people to exchange information so that every DM you send on reddit, twitter, discord, steam, ... would be have to be scanned. Not even the most totalitarian governments on this planet have tried to implement something like this. Also it sounds extremely illusory that the people exchanging CSAM wouldn't simply switch to private services knowing their mess…

> Not even the most totalitarian governments on this planet have tried to implement something like this. Arguably North Korea since their RedStar OS had a kernel module that scanned all files and text looking for keywords like 'torture'. And if you're being compared to one of the most brutal and isolated dictatorships on Earth, things are not good.

good point!

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#275

Post by Dalewyn »

anal_reactor wrote: post #267
Wytwwww wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We learnt the value of free speech the hard way, and very slowly Did we though? Unfortunately outside the US and a handful of other places free speech doesn't seem to be valued that much, often it's even viewed as a threat (and I'm not talking about authoritarian regimes). It's a double-edged sword to be fair, enabling misinformation and chaos.

> the US American freedom of speech aka "you can literally be fired and see your life ruined for having a political opinion but you won't go to jail so be thankful"

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

The 1st Amendment guarantees you the right to say whatever the fuck you want, with some very specific caveats concerning disturbing the peace, but freedom is power and power is responsibility.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#276

Post by sunaookami »

gpvos wrote: post #89
throwawayfear wrote: post #78

EU continues its descent into an authoritarian surveillance state. I hope all the EU netizens wake up and realize how much more control the EU has been exerting over its citizens since the pandemic.

It hasn't, apart from this Chat Control.

Have you looked at the DSA? The EU can just say "we have an emergency" and gets to directly control the narrative on major online plattforms.

https://dsa-observatory.eu/2023/02/21/the-dsas-crisis-approa...

Not to mention that under the DSA plattforms have to delete "misinformation" in a short time span, whatever that is.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#277

Post by Dalewyn »

katbyte wrote: post #205
tonynator wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they'll also defend laws like the ones passed earlier in the year by the US House about codifying the IHRA's definition of anti-Semitism. Anyone who defended that isn't even close to a free-speech absolutist. >I don't believe anyone truly has a Free Speech Absolutist position I do. It's what makes America great. Erosions like that jewish law are slowly weakening that. You should be allowed to say whatever you want a…

Should I be able to make wild claims about my product to trick you into buying it? False claims about my buisness performance to pump the stock? Lies about your character? Your kids? made up stuff that whips up entire segments of your city to commit violence or vandalism against you? Because absolute free speech is allowing all that without consequence

>Because absolute free speech is allowing all that without consequence

Freedom of speech is absolutely not about freedom from consequences. Where and how did you ever get that idea?

Free speech means you can say anything you want, some very specific caveats aside, and you can't be prosecuted simply for saying them. But that doesn't mean you won't have to answer for what happens as a consequence.

As an example: You absolutely can go and make wild claims about your product to try and sell it, nobody can stop you from doing that. You absolutely can make bogus claims about someone, nobody can stop you from doing that either. However, you will be prosecuted for making false statements and defamation respectively by the people you harmed. Note what is prosecuted here: The effects of the false and perhaps even sinister nature of the statement, not the statement itself.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#278

Post by account42 »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #165

Patrick's & a number of other Pirate Party seats were lost in the last EU elections. https://stackdiary.com/patrick-breyer-and-pirate-party-lose-... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40631517 It's going to be awful not having Patrick Breyer reporting these activities.

Perhaps the German pirate party should have sticked to focusing on privacy and digital rights instead of becoming a second Green party with a far left bend.

Really his snide at the right gaining traction in his post shows that he still doesn't get it.

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#279

Post by seydor »

belter wrote: post #7

EU is, and always was, a compensation job for failed national politicians at their respective national levels. It's the trade horse for allowing your party buddies to take over the government jobs. EU politicians should keep their over inflated salaries, and stick to what they are good at. Meeting with Google and Microsoft lobbyists at the best Brussels luxury restaurants.

> and stick to what they are good at.

No they should be kept accountable for their actions and the money they waste. Currently there is no mechanism for that, but i m sure hordes of them would quit if we made one

Re: EU to greenlight Chat Control tomorrow

#280

Post by seydor »

anigbrowl wrote: post #81
belter wrote: post #7

EU is, and always was, a compensation job for failed national politicians at their respective national levels. It's the trade horse for allowing your party buddies to take over the government jobs. EU politicians should keep their over inflated salaries, and stick to what they are good at. Meeting with Google and Microsoft lobbyists at the best Brussels luxury restaurants.

EU was established to provide mutual economic and military security in Europe on a federal model following WW2, and it's done very well in that aim. Of course it's not perfect, but shallow takes like the one above provide nothing of value.

For military and political security there is NATO.

The EU's mutual defense clause is an empty shell

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