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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#271

Post by fngjdflmdflg »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #141
izacus wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked for many bosses, never ever never undersestimate the power of ego of an executive. It's only second to the ego of a lawyer. Many of them will tank their company and their client if they get their ego bruised and feel publicly humiliated. Those are hyper competitive people which see live as zero sum game and are trained in life to never, ever, lose a challenge or competition for domination. ESPECIALLY in…

What if, and hear me out, execs could go to jail instead of just their company paying fines as if they're parking tickets? Would they still be as cocky?

Interestingly countries that jail people for corruption still have corruption. For example in China you can be jailed and even executed for corruption but there is still a lot of corruption there. Here's an example I read about a few days ago where a city government arrested someone who demanded to be payed for their construction contract. (Obviously the real story may be more complicated.)[0] And there are definitely petty execs there as well. I think it may be because you need more power in enforce corruption laws, and power itself multiplies the effect of corruption. That is why I think the civil law vs. criminal law is an important distinction.

[0] https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3253705/c...

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#272

Post by JumpCrisscross »

munk-a wrote: post #216
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> execs could go to jail instead of just their company paying fines as if they're parking tickets? You want to send an executive to jail for cancelling a contract? I’d be curious for a jurisdiction to try this. In my opinion, I wouldn’t want to do business in a place where commercial disputes can be twisted by a political insider into jail time.

Considering how impactful some executive decisions can be why would this be so inconceivable? A CEO can definitely cause more harm to a community than a shoplifter and we have no qualms about sending them to jail. If there was a clear mens rhea to cause harm or awareness of that harm and a disregard for the consequences to others then why shouldn't we treat it similarly?

> If there was a clear mens rhea to cause harm or awareness of that harm and a disregard for the consequences to others then why shouldn't we treat it similarly?

Yes, and we do. That’s well below the threshold of commercial disputes.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#273

Post by kevingadd »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #266
kevingadd wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criticizing defects in a product or criticizing a vendor's misbehavior doesn't make you automatically a "bad actor". A healthy vendor/customer relationship involves having channels where this criticism can be exchanged without putting the vendor or the customer in a bad position, and the criticism results in a better product. Instead, bug reports go into a black hole because Apple doesn't care, and they especially do…

> Criticizing defects in a product or criticizing a vendor's misbehavior doesn't make you automatically a "bad actor" Doing so publicly certainly does. I would terminate business with a client if they started airing out their issues about me on Twitter. That said, I’m not Apple. At a certain size, you lose the right to reject bad actors.

Like I said, Apple gives you no other choice. They don't have proper channels for communication on things like software defects or policy. You have to kick up a public outcry to get any help.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#274

Post by vardump »

EricE wrote: post #263
vardump wrote: post #147

I've spent ~$7000 on Apple products last year. I think it'll be $0 this year and going forward. Tired of this kind of crap. (Not only this, but Apple's behavior with EU, etc.)

Who you going to replace them with that's better/same level of ecosystem/user experience? Genuinely interested.

Frankly me too.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#275

Post by JumpCrisscross »

kevingadd wrote: post #273
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Criticizing defects in a product or criticizing a vendor's misbehavior doesn't make you automatically a "bad actor" Doing so publicly certainly does. I would terminate business with a client if they started airing out their issues about me on Twitter. That said, I’m not Apple. At a certain size, you lose the right to reject bad actors.

Like I said, Apple gives you no other choice. They don't have proper channels for communication on things like software defects or policy. You have to kick up a public outcry to get any help.

> Apple gives you no other choice

Sweeney and Schiller were emailing. Apple will read a letter you send addressed to their legal team.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#276

Post by vineyardmike »

benced wrote: post #135
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> watching Apple be maximally aggressive Sweeney allegedly tweeted that he would breach his contract with Apple. Apple reached out and asked if he was being hysterical for public display. He didn’t clarify. At that point, Epic credibly threatened breach of contract. This is a commercial dispute between multi-billion dollar companies, both of whom charge outrageous platform fees, both of whom seem to enjoy being drama…

This is flatly false. Schiller emailed Sweeney asking for assurances and Sweeney responded with: > Epic and its subsidiaries are acting in good faith and will comply with all terms of current and future agreements with Apple, and we'll be glad to provide Apple with any specific further assurances on the topic that you'd like. Without reply, Apple summarily terminated their developer account a week later. It seems obv…

> It is indeed true that Sweeney has tweeted many criticisms of Apple's DMA plans but there haven't been any threatening noncompliance.

Let’s not forget that Epic has previously breached contract with Apple in the past. That’s why Fortnite isn’t in the store today.

Surely this must be the true source of Apples suspicion?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#277

Post by pipo234 »

ergonaught wrote: post #102
hellcow wrote: post #83

Clearly the recent 1.8B Euro fine the EU levied against Apple didn't send a message. Perhaps the EU needs to ratchet it up by an order of magnitude.

More likely, Apple needs to withdraw entirely from the EU and see what happens.

I suppose they could do that, but wouldn't they still need to pay the 1.8B?

[Added] ... And continue to support products and services already sold?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#278

Post by fancyham »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #69
mrtksn wrote: post #45

I wonder why Apple doesn't open up their platforms to have everything best on their devices instead of fighting and agonising developers and governments. Yes yes, the commission is nice but they might be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. I mean, Apple is amazingly good in some areas but in some other areas their products are used only because they don't give a choice and they intent to keep it this way. Th…

Steve hated industry standards. The only time he ever said anything else was when every web site in the world ran on flash and iphone couldn't do flash. Every iphone user was reminded daily about how kneecapped it is when they can't pull up the web site for the restaursnt to check hours or call up for a reservation. That kind of life experience was his entire focus and his showpiece product failed utterly at it. And…

Flash WAS crappy - it had so many vulnerabilities (and probably would have run terribly on the early iPhones)

Just as importantly, Apple and Steve learned not to rely on someone else’s technology. PowerPC and all that (when Motorola stopped keeping up with Intel and Apple suffered)

Look at things through this lens and their behavior over the past decade makes a lot of sense.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#279

Post by pornel »

mrtksn wrote: post #45

I wonder why Apple doesn't open up their platforms to have everything best on their devices instead of fighting and agonising developers and governments. Yes yes, the commission is nice but they might be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. I mean, Apple is amazingly good in some areas but in some other areas their products are used only because they don't give a choice and they intent to keep it this way. Th…

Tim Cook’s Apple is all about increasing the Services Revenue. The line has to go up. Apple exists for their shareholders, not users.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#280

Post by Apocryphon »

mrtksn wrote: post #45

I wonder why Apple doesn't open up their platforms to have everything best on their devices instead of fighting and agonising developers and governments. Yes yes, the commission is nice but they might be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. I mean, Apple is amazingly good in some areas but in some other areas their products are used only because they don't give a choice and they intent to keep it this way. Th…

I've argued before that Apple should've semi-opened up iOS in a way that they could manage it to their interests. Now they've forced the hand of regulators to do it instead.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32170848

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