Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

blobstreaming.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 593 posts

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#271

Post by dboreham »

broast wrote: post #101
nox100 wrote: post #18

Some do, not all do. I do much better in a room with ~6 people that are working on the same project. Much better than working at home. Much better than a private office (which I've had). Having people around me working on the same project is invaluable for me for * asking quick questions and getting an instant answer. vs chat where I may not get an answer for hours. * running ideas by others. This doesn't happen on c…

I always find it surprising that so many people struggle to make effective human connections over chat. I think it must be generational, as I believe these are the connections I and other young people prefer.

Old person here, been using some form of chat since 1984 (The talk command on VMS).

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#272

Post by omnicognate »

awelxtr wrote: post #268
omnicognate wrote: post #211

As I read some of the aggressive, cynical and unpleasant responses here to any suggestion there might be some benefits to an open plan arrangement, it's dawning on me that one possible benefit is that it tends to filter out people with attitudes like these. I prefer open plan setups and am glad that working in trading environments has ensured my career has been spent in them, so my natural reaction to the title here…

So you're an active participant to the company's office politics instead of economic output. At least you openly admit it.

... is precisely the sort of aggressive, cynical and unpleasant response I'm talking about.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#273

Post by gorgoiler »

definitelyauser wrote: post #232
gorgoiler wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open plan worked for me when there was a very clear contract between every stakeholder. Firstly, everyone had free, good quality, sound blocking headphones. Not just free as in standard equipment on your first day free. There were buckets of the things lying around and if you needed a new set you just grabbed some, no questions asked. VC funded opulence, yay! Secondly, there was an understanding amongst everyone on t…

I've often run into the "just wear headphones" argument and never been a fan of it. Do you code with noise cancellation in a sort of sensory deprivation mode? Or do you listen to music? Listening to music while coding severely reduces my concentration, and I find it in no way to be a substitute for silence.

Yes I can imagine Wagner or Cardi B being counter productive here. Musical white noise — plaid noise? — works wonders though. As another commenter said: EDM has been a key factor in my productivity as a software engineer over the years.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#274

Post by scaryclam »

definitelyauser wrote: post #232
gorgoiler wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open plan worked for me when there was a very clear contract between every stakeholder. Firstly, everyone had free, good quality, sound blocking headphones. Not just free as in standard equipment on your first day free. There were buckets of the things lying around and if you needed a new set you just grabbed some, no questions asked. VC funded opulence, yay! Secondly, there was an understanding amongst everyone on t…

I've often run into the "just wear headphones" argument and never been a fan of it. Do you code with noise cancellation in a sort of sensory deprivation mode? Or do you listen to music? Listening to music while coding severely reduces my concentration, and I find it in no way to be a substitute for silence.

Me neither. If I'm concentrating I don't want to wear headphones all day. Even with my very comfortable ones, it's not that comfortable and as you say, it's not the same as silence, or just the quiet of a room without human noise.

It's also the inverse problem as well though. Sometimes I want to listen to music, but I'm not doing anything that requires me to be unapproachable. Heck, sometimes I'm looking for a distraction, which is WHY I'm wearing the headphones, listening to something distracting!

The idea that wearing headphones should mean "leave me alone" just doesn't work for me, and when I want to be left alone, wearing headphones doesn't mean I can concentrate

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#276

Post by marcosdumay »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #71
overflyer wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you guys ever thought about the fact that there are nerds that like so socialize and hate working from home, because it gets f'ing lonely after a while? I want to see people. The corona pandamic where I worked almost 2 years from home drove me into a severe depression.

Yes, I have a theory based on this. I think that roughly 40%-60% of developers prefer remote, the remainder prefer in-office. So if you mandate in-office, roughly half of your developers will be unhappy. If you go full-remote, again, roughly half of your developers will be unhappy. So what do you do? I think you have to pick one and stick with it. Over time, you'll collect people who prefer remote or in-office. It wo…

I really believe your number is more like 80%. But yeah, the overall idea stands.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#277

Post by aleph_minus_one »

definitelyauser wrote: post #232
gorgoiler wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open plan worked for me when there was a very clear contract between every stakeholder. Firstly, everyone had free, good quality, sound blocking headphones. Not just free as in standard equipment on your first day free. There were buckets of the things lying around and if you needed a new set you just grabbed some, no questions asked. VC funded opulence, yay! Secondly, there was an understanding amongst everyone on t…

I've often run into the "just wear headphones" argument and never been a fan of it. Do you code with noise cancellation in a sort of sensory deprivation mode? Or do you listen to music? Listening to music while coding severely reduces my concentration, and I find it in no way to be a substitute for silence.

> Do you code with noise cancellation in a sort of sensory deprivation mode? Or do you listen to music?

Related to what dboreham wrote in his sibling comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38695799): under some specific circumstances specific kinds of music can increase the concentration for me when programming. If these circumstances are met, I do sometimes listen to music on my noise-cancelling headphones when programming.

But typically I love to program in sensory deprivation mode (the same holds for learning).

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#278

Post by pseudalopex »

neilwilson wrote: post #249
esskay wrote: post #106

It has to be said, if you're employing programmers and making them sit in an openplan office you're willingly and knowingly making their job significantly harder, and their day worse. Open plan might work great for some types of work, but for highly technical and mentally taxing work it's quite litterally the worst possible working environment you could be providing. There's a reason that many programmers prefer to w…

The work was done by IBM in 1975. You need lots of space to keep the noise down and you need offices with doors that close. Why are we still having this discussion fifty years later?

The costs of offices are easier to quantify than the benefits.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#279

Post by phendrenad2 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #236

I worked for a Japanese corporation. The Tokyo offices had enormous rooms, with long rows of desks, arranged by section/department. The section manager's desk was at the end of each row. VPs, with billion-dollar budgets, had small, schoolteacher-style desks, in the corner of the room. These enormous rooms, with hundreds of engineers, were quiet as a library. They had carpeting, people wore "office slippers," and ther…

"one-size-fits-all" solutions are the prevailing business strategy of investment bankers: Make every company run exactly the same, and save on cost by commoditizing the materials and people.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#280

Post by musicale »

cjaybo wrote: post #246
otteromkram wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but terrible for collaborative whiteboard design work. Not at all. If you think so, maybe try switching jobs to non-remote and let someone fine with virtual whiteboarding take your role on.

> Not at all The arrogance required to tell someone that their experience is false is something I have trouble wrapping my head around.

> The arrogance required to tell someone that their experience is false is something I have trouble wrapping my head around.

It's my least favorite thing about HN, but it's one of the opiates of the internet. Alternate phrasing like "not in my experience" might be slightly better.

I still think "downvote to grey" is a regression vs. simply letting popular comments be voted higher.

Post reply on HN