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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#271

Post by kibwen »

crop_rotation wrote: post #230
nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

By this kind of logic there is so much bullshit wherever there is consumer choice, and all products should be legislated to be the same, Soviet style.

Pro-consumer stances are literally communism now?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#273

Post by coldtea »

nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

You care enough to buy iPhones and iOS, but not enough to buy Android and do all those things.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#274

Post by sbuk »

smoldesu wrote: post #244
sbuk wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decided the iPhone is a general-purpose computing device?

The EU did, by qualifying Apple as a services gatekeeper on iPhone: 1. An undertaking shall be designated as a gatekeeper if: (a) it has a significant impact on the internal market; (b) it provides a core platform service which is an important gateway for business users to reach end users; and (c) it enjoys an entrenched and durable position, in its operations, or it is foreseeable that it will enjoy such a position…

None of those indicates whether a device is a general-purpose computer.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#275

Post by kibwen »

HWR_14 wrote: post #264
stale2002 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be! After the law goes into effect it will be the iPhone. Feel free to not install internet browsers that you don't like though.

Google search, Youtube and many other properties will only work with Chromium as soon as it doesn't mean saying goodbye to iOS users.

The mindset here is so alien to me. Do people think that the EU is willing to take action against Apple, and yet somehow unwilling to take action against Google?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#276

Post by smoldesu »

HWR_14 wrote: post #264
stale2002 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be! After the law goes into effect it will be the iPhone. Feel free to not install internet browsers that you don't like though.

Google search, Youtube and many other properties will only work with Chromium as soon as it doesn't mean saying goodbye to iOS users.

Google Search, YouTube and many other Google properties are also subject to the same Digital Market Act regulations. Google is a designated gatekeeper, same as Apple.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#277

Post by coldtea »

kibwen wrote: post #267
HWR_14 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like Apple mandating WebKit is the only thing holding v8/Chromium from a total monopoly, the App Store monopoly is the only thing holding back "use Meta omni-permission store or get cut off from FB/IG/WhatsApp". And then Meta getting most companies to use their store because they'll take 10% and just the data.

Great, and then we can properly break up Facebook as well as Google. I see no downsides here.

Break them? More likely they'll continue their business as usual, with a slightly increased lobbying spending.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#278

Post by bpye »

Does the DMA allow for a distinction between system applications and those that are sideloaded - or do they expect that any sideloaded app should have access to all entitlements, including those that are private today?

I've read summaries of the DMA but it's not obvious.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#279

Post by grishka »

kajumix wrote: post #252
grishka wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about personal choices, it's about enabling fair competition. If you sell a general-purpose computing device and market it as one, you should relinquish any control of it once it's sold.

Competition is the natural state of affairs. Nobody has to enable it. IBM/Microsoft weren't forced by the EU to give up market dominance in PCs. And if the EU tried, it couldn't ever do a better job than Apple did. It's no surprise that EU lags so much behind the US in tech innovation.

> Nobody has to enable it.

OS and device vendors forcibly inserting themselves between developers and users like Apple does is unprecedented. Because Apple has a literal technological supremacy over most of the humanity (since iOS devices use secure boot that can't be disabled and relies on keys burned into silicon that you can't change because you lack the technology to do so), regulation needs to happen to enable fair competition among iOS apps.

In other words, no one needed to enable competition when adversarial interoperability was possible. It is not possible on iOS devices because of combination of secure boot and code signing policies.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#280

Post by kibwen »

kajumix wrote: post #252
grishka wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about personal choices, it's about enabling fair competition. If you sell a general-purpose computing device and market it as one, you should relinquish any control of it once it's sold.

Competition is the natural state of affairs. Nobody has to enable it. IBM/Microsoft weren't forced by the EU to give up market dominance in PCs. And if the EU tried, it couldn't ever do a better job than Apple did. It's no surprise that EU lags so much behind the US in tech innovation.

> Competition is the natural state of affairs.

This is not even remotely true. Economies of scale mean that power accumulates and monopolies emerge, and monopolies are the antithesis of competition. In order to ensure competition, you need regulation to shake the jar regularly.

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