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NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

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Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#271

Post by keepamovin »

ramraj07 wrote: post #256
keepamovin wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand tho: you're not qualified to judge or disqualify it. That's why mockery is not only undeserved but inappropriate. That's why mockery here only humiliates you in front of the great mystery. You say you know the universe's possibilities? The universe would disagree with you, and you'd lose. That's why you need openness, curiosity and skepticism to stand in front of these things. Those who mock this…

Mockery is definitely acceptable when someone makes outlandish claims. You are totally justified in laughing at the spying spaghetti monster because its point is to make fun of the ludicrousness of some people’s beliefs. What are my thoughts on an octopus like species under Europa? What are YOUR thoughts on lizard people living inside Earths core? If we want to acknowledge every fantastical claim with zero proof we w…

Hey Ramraj07, do you really believe what you're saying? Let's dig in a bit. The idea of lizard people at the Earth's core sounds out there, but let's consider the facts. We don't fully understand what the Earth's core is like. It could be a high-pressure, metallic, molten phase. But we're largely in the dark here; it could be anything.

Now, if you think about honeycomb Earth, filled with caverns and caves, things get more interesting. We know microbes inhabit the subsurface in abundance, types we don't see on the surface. So who's to say what else might be down there? It's a mystery, and dismissing it outright is a mistake.

Now, about lizard people living inside our version of Earth: I believe they could exist. I know that in an alternate timeline where Earth's history took a different turn and lacked the asteroid which 65 million years ago provided the opportunity for mammals to evolve into apes and humans, it was reptiles that evolved into an upright humanoid form. These alternate timeline reptilian humanoids are indigenous to their own version of Earth and exist in a dimension overlaid with our own. Earth humans from this timeline encountering these upright reptilians and their more volcanic planet via transitory dimensional portals have mislabelled them devils and demons, and their world? You guessed it: "hell". So, is it that far-fetched to think that some communities of indigenous terran reptilian humanoids might exist in our timeline, in our dimension? Reports from religions, government insiders, and the public suggest it's possible.

Switching gears, what do you think about octopus species living beneath the ice of Europa? And, why the cynicism? Did you once believe in these things but grew disheartened due to disinformation campaigns? Skepticism is healthy; cynicism is not. Don't let fear or social pressures derail your curiosity.

So why not rejoin those of us willing to consider the unexplained? You'd bring a lot to the table. Humor is good, but mockery doesn't serve anyone, especially when we're talking about the unknown: it only insults your humility in front of the great mystery. And you're better than that, Ramraj07--so act like it, dude! What are your thoughts, man?

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#272

Post by ramraj07 »

keepamovin wrote: post #271
ramraj07 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mockery is definitely acceptable when someone makes outlandish claims. You are totally justified in laughing at the spying spaghetti monster because its point is to make fun of the ludicrousness of some people’s beliefs. What are my thoughts on an octopus like species under Europa? What are YOUR thoughts on lizard people living inside Earths core? If we want to acknowledge every fantastical claim with zero proof we w…

Hey Ramraj07, do you really believe what you're saying? Let's dig in a bit. The idea of lizard people at the Earth's core sounds out there, but let's consider the facts. We don't fully understand what the Earth's core is like. It could be a high-pressure, metallic, molten phase. But we're largely in the dark here; it could be anything. Now, if you think about honeycomb Earth, filled with caverns and caves, things get…

I don’t reconsider outlandish theories because of misinformation campaigns I do my own research. My research and learnings have showed that the temperature and pressure increase quite dramatically as you dig deeper and a few miles in it’s too hot for even metal to stay solid. So yeah I can personally confidentially disregard the hypothesis that there’s places where complex beings can exist deep inside earth unbeknownst to us. We are not in kindergarten giving gold stars for effort. Especially poor ones at that.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#273

Post by whimsicalism »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #267
whimsicalism wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The distances involved, the speed of light and inverse square laws mean we wouldn't expect to have detected aliens yet if they are there That’s not true at all - simple assumptions would make it likely we would have encountered intelligent life if it evolved in the past in this galaxy.

Why do people insist that intelligent life had to take the turns we took over the last couple thousands of years? Intelligent life is far more likely to look like how humans have lived for the last couple hundred thousand years than the last few thousand. I’d argue a flock of birds qualifies as intelligent life.

It makes sense temporally.

If you have a species that is intelligent and has the capacity to evolve to more and more sophisticated tool building, then that will build on itself. If life is so common that it has arisen independently on other planets in our solar system, it would be likely that these intelligent species would have arisen hundreds of millions of years before us.

And even if most don't advance to interstellar travel, it really only takes a few expansionary ones if they were sufficiently long ago that we would have seen evidence. Again, if life is so common it is on other bodies independently in our solar system, this should have happened probably.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#274

Post by whimsicalism »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #269
whimsicalism wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We wouldn’t need to detect signals - life arising only a few hundred million years earlier than us would easily have been able to send physical artifacts/vehicles/harvesting to every system in the entire galaxy if they had interstellar travel. If life were common enough that it has evolved multiple times in the same solar system (excluding panspermia) then this becomes almost a certainty that it should have occurred

What a big assumption to make though. Billions of years of life on earth and an object was first put in space what 80 years ago? This technological age of ours could very well just be a blip. Its far more likely based on our own planet that intelligent life does none of these things. We might not have civilization at all if we didn’t happen to farm, we could both be preparing for our morning hunt and foraging just as…

Yes, it is possible that there is a large filter between developing life and getting to where we are. I can't deny that that is a possible explanation for the observed Fermi paradox.

But finding independent life on other planets would eliminate a whole class of great filters, making it more likely the filter is either as you said or that it is ahead of us. It is bad news imo if it is more likely than before that the filter is ahead of us. And that is unambiguously the case if we were to find life on another planet. Not proof positive it is ahead of us, but it shifts the probabilities.

And yes, it took billions of years for life to evolve, but if we find life in our solar system, that is potentially billions of opportunities for life independently evolving.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#275

Post by sharlos201068 »

developer93 wrote: post #260
jcims wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

800km deep. Oof. Seems like an ocean world could develop intelligence but technology would be quite difficult.

Our technology would be quite difficult, we might not even be able imagine what form an alien race's might take.

Technology is technology, it's about exploiting the laws of nature to do things.

If you want to create refined metals you'll need to heat it, you'll need a source of heat, and you'll need to isolate it from the surrounding water long enough to finish the process.

Being underwater makes a lot things much much more difficult or impossible.

That's even ignoring your species won't be incidentally exposed to sources of easy energy like fire occurring naturally before learning to create it yourself.

There's certainly workarounds and alternatives that could make it _possible_ to develop technologies like fire, metallurgy, complex chemistry, etc. but they'll all be so much harder to discover and do that no early civilisation would consider the required experimentation worthwhile.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#276

Post by noduerme »

xorbax wrote: post #270
jimkleiber wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it helpful to remember. When covid was starting to spread I worried a lot about potential exponential growth and was confused why a lot of others didn't seem so worried. While there may be many reasons, one that came to mind is that they may not have learned as much about exponential growth as I had in electrical and computer engineering and in working with startups. So it helped me to remember not everyone ha…

The vast majority of people dont really "get" functions or plots or line fitting They took 7th grade math, but assert that y=mx is meaningless in real life and doesn't help them understand anything they have to deal with

Yeah. Originally when those people refused to wear masks I quietly wished them death. But after awhile I got more tired of hearing educated people pretend that their intellect was keeping them alive more than their economic leverage was. Rooting for the ignorant to die of covid was a bad look. Granted, we also had a president who said he loved the uneducated, so it all took place at a moment when that line could be drawn in a certain way. In any event, the snobbish castigation of people who don't understand science or math didn't help and actually hurt the cause of getting them to protect themselves and everyone else.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#277

Post by TheHappyOddish »

bmitc wrote: post #183
jychang wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background. 1. Water molecules are not indivisible, of course. Many biological processes will rip apart hydrogen and oxygen, or combine them back together, and have been doing so for billions of years. Industrial processes do the same. So there’s plenty of “new water” from oxygen in the air, etc. 2. New water/oxygen/hydrogen land on…

> Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background. This isn't necessary for your point and detracts from an otherwise useful clarification.

As a non scientific person, I took no offense. Whilst it's fine to point these things out, it's important to remember that people come from different cultures, and often the intent is unlikely to be there to offend.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#278

Post by developer93 »

sharlos201068 wrote: post #275
developer93 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our technology would be quite difficult, we might not even be able imagine what form an alien race's might take.

Technology is technology, it's about exploiting the laws of nature to do things. If you want to create refined metals you'll need to heat it, you'll need a source of heat, and you'll need to isolate it from the surrounding water long enough to finish the process. Being underwater makes a lot things much much more difficult or impossible. That's even ignoring your species won't be incidentally exposed to sources of ea…

Again, you're thinking human centric. Maybe they could do amazing things with non metallic materials which we haven't needed or which haven't been practical for us due to the different circumstances.
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