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NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

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Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#181

Post by wddkcs »

redundantly wrote: post #151
wddkcs wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only bad if there aren't undiscovered sources and/or processes we can use in the future to produce more water. It's technological optimism, not disingenuousness.

Saying there might be fixes for this in the future is also disingenuous. It's like saying military burn pits are okay because there may be medical advancements in the future that can be used to treat afflicted soldiers.

Arguing against optimism is arguing against the history of science. We have cures to diseases that were declared unavoidable divine judgements, we have achieved feats of engineering that would be unimaginable a century ago. I am not arguing for the deapoilation of the planet. We should preserve our resources as best we can. But future growth requires the usage of what resources we do have, in to achieve outcomes and efficiencies far better than we can imagine.

I do agree though, if science wasn't verifiable, it would sound like a pyramid scheme.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#182

Post by wddkcs »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #160
wddkcs wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only bad if there aren't undiscovered sources and/or processes we can use in the future to produce more water. It's technological optimism, not disingenuousness.

That sounds like it's beyond optimum into foolishness. I could possibly win the lottery one day, but I'm not going to live my life as if it's guaranteed.

Your analogy is an extreme example of the principle I'm referencing. Taken to a similar extreme, your argument is that we should choose who lives and who dies, through the limitation of the resources required for growth.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#183

Post by bmitc »

jychang wrote: post #108
dmix wrote: post #87

> a fascinating world with a salty, subsurface ocean of liquid water—possibly twice as much as in all of Earth’s oceans combined. If we brought water back a container of water from Europa would this be the largest amount of new water entering the earth since planets struck it billions of years ago? I briefly googled it (I dont know much about this stuff tbh): > The water on our Earth today is the same water that’s be…

Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background. 1. Water molecules are not indivisible, of course. Many biological processes will rip apart hydrogen and oxygen, or combine them back together, and have been doing so for billions of years. Industrial processes do the same. So there’s plenty of “new water” from oxygen in the air, etc. 2. New water/oxygen/hydrogen land on…

> Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background.

This isn't necessary for your point and detracts from an otherwise useful clarification.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#184

Post by kouru225 »

mikeInAlaska wrote: post #66
sph wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, the only thing I wish to see before I die is a submarine mission to Europa or Ganymede. It would be even more mind blowing and an amazing achievement for humanity, and the search for extraterrestrial life. That, and the dragonfly-helicopter-thing on Titan. Have you ever seen the Sun set on a methane lake? It's time for a rewatch of Europa Report (2013).

A Europa submarine mission is a good bucket list, but don't sell us too short. * Humans on Mars * Room temperature Superconductors and their effects on humanity. * Sustained Fusion Power for the masses. * General Artificial Intelligence * Human brain-computer interface. * Full reversal of climate change. * Extended human lifespan. * Curing all forms of cancer. * Universal translator for all human languages. * Discove…

I don’t want humans on Mars. What would they do there? Sounds like a terrible idea.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#185

Post by kolinko »

nojvek wrote: post #176
jvm___ wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the water I drink the same water I pee? Or does it get taken apart and put back together with different pieces?

Same H2O molecules, different levels of other molecules mixed in with it. It is possible to recycle urine into drinkable water. That’s what they do in international space station where water is very precious. https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/news/wat...

They also do it in Singapore iirc.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#186

Post by jimkleiber »

bmitc wrote: post #183
jychang wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background. 1. Water molecules are not indivisible, of course. Many biological processes will rip apart hydrogen and oxygen, or combine them back together, and have been doing so for billions of years. Industrial processes do the same. So there’s plenty of “new water” from oxygen in the air, etc. 2. New water/oxygen/hydrogen land on…

> Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background. This isn't necessary for your point and detracts from an otherwise useful clarification.

I find it helpful to remember. When covid was starting to spread I worried a lot about potential exponential growth and was confused why a lot of others didn't seem so worried. While there may be many reasons, one that came to mind is that they may not have learned as much about exponential growth as I had in electrical and computer engineering and in working with startups. So it helped me to remember not everyone has the same education and experience that I do, that we're all relatively ignorant, depending on the field.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#187

Post by coderenegade »

bilsbie wrote: post #104
dmix wrote: post #87

> a fascinating world with a salty, subsurface ocean of liquid water—possibly twice as much as in all of Earth’s oceans combined. If we brought water back a container of water from Europa would this be the largest amount of new water entering the earth since planets struck it billions of years ago? I briefly googled it (I dont know much about this stuff tbh): > The water on our Earth today is the same water that’s be…

Hydrolox rockets have been making millions of gallons of new water on earth. Even burning gasoline creates some new water.

In fact all fossil fuels! When you split the carbon parts from the hydrocarbon, most of hydrogen parts end up as water. For every tonne of CO2 that's ever been emitted, there's a corresponding mass of water for which the hydrogen part was previously sequestered.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#188

Post by kochikame »

mikeInAlaska wrote: post #66
sph wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, the only thing I wish to see before I die is a submarine mission to Europa or Ganymede. It would be even more mind blowing and an amazing achievement for humanity, and the search for extraterrestrial life. That, and the dragonfly-helicopter-thing on Titan. Have you ever seen the Sun set on a methane lake? It's time for a rewatch of Europa Report (2013).

A Europa submarine mission is a good bucket list, but don't sell us too short. * Humans on Mars * Room temperature Superconductors and their effects on humanity. * Sustained Fusion Power for the masses. * General Artificial Intelligence * Human brain-computer interface. * Full reversal of climate change. * Extended human lifespan. * Curing all forms of cancer. * Universal translator for all human languages. * Discove…

Alright Elon, calm down

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#189

Post by bmitc »

jimkleiber wrote: post #186
bmitc wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every once in a while, I get reminded that people don’t necessarily have a scientific background. This isn't necessary for your point and detracts from an otherwise useful clarification.

I find it helpful to remember. When covid was starting to spread I worried a lot about potential exponential growth and was confused why a lot of others didn't seem so worried. While there may be many reasons, one that came to mind is that they may not have learned as much about exponential growth as I had in electrical and computer engineering and in working with startups. So it helped me to remember not everyone ha…

There will always be people that don't know what you know and vice versa. It's a given fact of life. It's like forgetting that the sky is blue. Haha. I.e., I agree with you, but your statement is more humble than the last.

Re: NASA’s Webb finds carbon source on surface of Jupiter’s moon Europa

#190

Post by globular-toast »

buffington wrote: post #134
namirez wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except water is H2O where the oxygen comes from plants and plants get it from water and the hydrogen comes from hydrocarbon fuels where the hydrogen comes from water again. So technically you can never create new water on Earth but you can bring in more from the space.

> Except water is H2O where the oxygen comes from plants and plants get it from water and the hydrogen comes from hydrocarbon fuels where the hydrogen comes from water again I'm not a chemist, so I may be totally wrong here, but does a water molecule "care" where the source of its oxygen and hydrogen come from? If you brought oxygen from space, and hydrogen from space, couldn't you then create new water on Earth?

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