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Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

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Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#271

Post by dudul »

Zetice wrote: post #264
dudul wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You throw a lot of half baked assertions on this thread but it doesn't seem to go anywhere. Who should a nation put first then? I dont see the connection between how citizenship is acquired (AFAIK each nation is free to set the rules/laws that they think is fair) and if citizens should get special treatment or not. If citizens can't get "special" treatment over non resident in their own country what's the point of co…

A nation supports the people who agree to the social contract upon which the nation is founded, citizenship be damned. Citizenship in the US is a profoundly broken system with a horrendous and racist past, and using it to decide who deserves the benefit of the social contract and who doesn’t is actively buying into the nationalistic and false idea that Americans are superior just because they were born somewhere and…

You're now blatantly strawmaning. Nobody is talking about the value of a life or people being superior to others. We're discussing employment policies.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#272

Post by polski-g »

nsoonhui wrote: post #206
burnerburnson wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a manager of a team that's mostly H1Bs at Google. It's mostly fine but a few of them just refuse improve their English, and it's frustrating spending hours every day just being an English teacher to an engineer who writes at a 5th grade level. The problem with hiring too many H1Bs is they speak to each other in Chinese and thus take forever to become proficient at communicating with the rest of the company. Also,…

Here's something I don't understand. If google pays the same regardless, why bother to hire H1B at all?

Because they can serve them shit-sandwiches in other metrics and the H1B has no recourse.

"Work over the weekend or your employment will be terminated and you will have to be deported."

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#273

Post by Zetice »

dudul wrote: post #271
Zetice wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nation supports the people who agree to the social contract upon which the nation is founded, citizenship be damned. Citizenship in the US is a profoundly broken system with a horrendous and racist past, and using it to decide who deserves the benefit of the social contract and who doesn’t is actively buying into the nationalistic and false idea that Americans are superior just because they were born somewhere and…

You're now blatantly strawmaning. Nobody is talking about the value of a life or people being superior to others. We're discussing employment policies.

That’s exactly what is being discussed, even if you don’t realize what it is you’re saying.

Americans are not more deserving of jobs than foreigners, Americans are not better than foreigners.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#274

Post by polski-g »

booleandilemma wrote: post #92
mattrighetti wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to work with people from my town Nobody forces you to work with people from across the world, quit your job and find one that only hires people from your town

Sounds impractical to me. In fact every company I've worked for is flooded with non-Americans. It would be tough to find a company that only hires Americans. I think a better solution is to end H-1B. Nobody is forcing people to come here.

Work for defense/intelligence contractors. 100% of the people they hire are Americans.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#275

Post by Zetice »

jpalawaga wrote: post #268
Zetice wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, a nation should not put just its citizens first, that’s nationalistic garbage. Firstly it presumes a nation decides who its citizens are through some fair system, and secondly it presumes its citizens are somehow inherently more deserving than its non citizens. Anyone who agrees to the social contract gets to benefit from the nation. That’s what a country actually is.

Your premise is flawed. If I create a new nation and my nations social contact is one norm: no outsiders, then you can't simply be a national by agreeing to the contract. In practice, nations prioritize their own citizens, in the same way you will prioritize your family. Do you abandon taking care of your family because it would be "more fair," to take care of someone on the other side of the planet? Your countrymen…

The problem you’re ignoring is that there is not a 1:1 correlation between citizenship and people who agree to the social contract.

Everyone who gives up freedom to the state is entering into a social contract with that state, citizenship or no. Once those people enter into that contract, they deserve all of the rights and services the contract provides.

By tying the contract to citizenship, you provide a way for racists and nationalists to steal from the people arbitrarily determined to be noncitizens, usually along racial lines.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#276

Post by manuelabeledo »

mrits wrote: post #253
manuelabeledo wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You aren't supposed to take hyperbole literally. I didn't say "literally", but "seriously". > I didn't hire H1B workers because I couldn't find Java programmers in the US... You are misdirecting your anger at the program, instead of the abusers, which are never FAANG companies but large IT consultancy corporations like Tata. If your company is hiring H-1B visa holders at a rate way below market, they are committing…

I love the program. You are now accusing me of fraud and being a crook when you clearly don't know the first thing about the system that you yourself took advantage of. Good luck with that attitude.

I'm not accusing you of being anything. I'm just saying that if your company is hiring visa holders at a rate below market, then they are committing a crime.

> ... you clearly don't know the first thing about the system that you yourself took advantage of.

Don't make me laugh. Do you really believe that anyone going through several years of dealing with the USCIS knows nothing about visa processes?

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#278

Post by afavour »

chii wrote: post #172
afavour wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is meant to be a jobs visa It isn’t, it’s a dual intent visa. Job and path to permanent residency.

> dual intent visa. the gov't doesn't intent this visa to be dual purpose. It is a job visa first and foremost, and the path to PR is at best a secondary concern for the gov't.

If the government doesn’t intend for it to be a dual intent visa why did they make it a dual intent visa? This is all very much under their control!

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#279

Post by Zetice »

dudul wrote: post #266
Zetice wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, people immigrated here because it was better here, and it was better here because people immigrated. And no, permanent residents do not have anything about them that is inherently more deserving of anything. That is in no way what a country is for. A country provides social services to people in exchange for some control, so as to keep order. If you give control, you get services. Land borders are not an importan…

Once we reach level 4 or 5 of replies I think it's not really worth pursuing so I'll just give my take on this one and leave it there. That's probably a case where principles/values or whatever you want to call it differ too much for anything to come out of it. People were allowed and welcome to immigrate because there was a gigantic country to fill. Now this policy makes no sense so rules have changed. It's just com…

You keep getting stuck in the bureaucracy, presuming it results in just outcomes. It doesn’t.

If the concept of citizenship was simply an agreement to the social contract, open to all, you could start to favor those who’ve agreed over those who haven’t, though even then you can’t say from a moral perspective the lives of those who’ve agreed are superior.

However you seem overly attached to the concept of soil and citizenship, both of which can be manipulated by bigots to hurt the people they’re hateful towards. This is why “Americans” can’t be considered first; what even qualifies is set based on a wildly racist past, riddled with hateful people making nationalistic laws that remain in effect today.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#280

Post by BlackJeffBezos »

vinay_ys wrote: post #210
chii wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> H1B at big tech is modern slavery that's putting it too far - they are free to leave or quit as they wish. Unlike the true modern slavery of which is migrant workers (like described here https://www.antislavery.org/world-cup-2022-the-reality-for-m... ), where their passports are confiscated, etc. H1B is exploiting the rules for cheap labour. It does benefit the H1B holder - since they would otherwise not have signe…

> H1B is exploiting the rules for cheap labour. It does benefit the H1B holder - since they would otherwise not have signed up. H1B, L1 etc visa schemes make you indentured to the system. The longer you stay and invest in your home and social life (which as a human you have to, otherwise you become a mindless drone), the more you are indentured to the system. Indenture is built into the visa contract – you cannot qui…

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