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Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

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Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#241

Post by manuelabeledo »

mrits wrote: post #221
manuelabeledo wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that getting fired as a H-1B could end up terribly, I have yet to encounter a single visa holder that's grossly underpaid or mistreated. > Like a slave they might be lucky and have a good master. Can't take this kind of hyperbole seriously.

You aren't supposed to take hyperbole literally. I didn't hire H1B workers because I couldn't find Java programmers in the US...

> You aren't supposed to take hyperbole literally.

I didn't say "literally", but "seriously".

> I didn't hire H1B workers because I couldn't find Java programmers in the US...

You are misdirecting your anger at the program, instead of the abusers, which are never FAANG companies but large IT consultancy corporations like Tata.

If your company is hiring H-1B visa holders at a rate way below market, they are committing fraud. Again, not an issue with the visa holders themselves, but your company HR personnel being absolute crooks.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#242

Post by ecf »

Zetice wrote: post #204
_dujt wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we don’t care where you’re from if you’re great at what you do. Yes, that’s true but isn’t what is happening here. They’re not bringing in H1Bs for their talent, they’re firing US workers so they bring in H1Bs to do the same job, but cheaper. Break up ALL big tech.

If they’re not better, the company will get worse, and be overtaken eventually. In my experience, they’re plenty good enough, often overqualified.

All well and good but I never mentioned performance. Of course they’re able to do the job, no doubts there. But the bottom line is US companies are firing US workers not because they need to, but because they want an excuse to hire cheaper workers through an immigration program.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#243

Post by dccoolgai »

ajmurmann wrote: post #116
afavour wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Modern slavery” is definitely an exaggeration but many are also not quite so free to quit. The H1B is a “dual intent” visa, meaning you can apply for permanent residency while you have it. But you must maintain your H1B the entire time, which can be a decade or more for folks from places like India. You can transfer an H1B but it’s not easy and if you quit your job you must line another one up in 60 days or say good…

This is what creates more downward pressure on everyone's comp than just getting foreign workers. It artificially creates a group of workers for whom it's significantly harder and more risky to change jobs or simply quit when they are unsatisfied. I think everyone in tech would be better off if you wouldn't lose the H1B quickly if unemployed and if you wouldn't need to rely on an employer doing extra work to sponsor…

Or like... if the actual _company_ that claims it "needs that worker from outside the U.S. so so so much" actually took the risk on instead of foisting it on the poor employee (and by extension, the entire labor market). My 2-step process for fixing the H1-B system.

1. H1Bs are _auctioned_ instead of raffled. You really need that H1B? Prove it - pay for it. 2. Sponsoring companies are responsible for cost of living for that employee for the entire duration of their H1B. That obligation can be transferred to another company.

3. (Bonus) After reaching a certain threshold of "taxes paid to the U.S." (maybe 300k or something) H1B holders _automatically_ get their green cards. No questions asked. If you can take that much of their money, they can be citizens.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#244

Post by manuelabeledo »

ftyers wrote: post #19
prng2021 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've personally noticed that H1B tech workers get paid significantly lower than others. It's a shameful business practice and obviously also really hurts the competitiveness of non-visa workers. My guess is that there's no clear market rate for any position. Companies can always say there's a wide range between lowest and highest paid for any given role.

I wonder if it's different in the public sector? I'm at a university and (pay transparency) earn pretty much equivalent to equivalently experienced colleagues. (Edit: in the Midwest)

It is not.

Visa holder wages are publicly available. People in this thread are making stuff up to support their views.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#245

Post by dotnet00 »

throwaway290 wrote: post #182
dotnet00 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Return home" is awfully convenient phrasing to gloss over the fact that to many of the people caught in this system, the US IS their home in practical terms and "returning home" to their country of origin is more like uprooting your entire life within a few weeks and restarting it in a foreign land. Especially with Chinese and Indian H1Bs, the wait for permanent residency can be so long that they may have spent over…

Correct. Now you can maybe read up on those things I mentioned and understand why you are still failing to make H1B even remotely look like actual modern slavery. (Spoiler alert: it might have something to do with pitting "uprooting life" & "no friends" against "no option to leave", "life in confinement" and "work till death")

Calling it slavery isn't to say that the situation is on par with Uyghur camps or Indian laborers in the middle east etc. Just like "I'm dying from this heat" doesn't actually say that the heat is so severe as to kill you the way it can in some parts of the world.

The point is that the system creates a similar sense of entrapment as slavery. The fact that it isn't literal slavery doesn't make it not an exploitative practice worth fixing.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#246

Post by dboreham »

jaimex2 wrote: post #96

Non-American here. Do H1B workers need to live in the US to work, or they can work remotely from their country?

You have this backwards: the visa is required only to live in the US for the purposes of working. If you aren't living in the US, you can work as much as you like for a US company, provided they and you comply with laws in your country. Typically this requires them to set up a subsidiary in your country, or contract with a local company that you become an employee of.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#247

Post by Zetice »

ecf wrote: post #242
Zetice wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they’re not better, the company will get worse, and be overtaken eventually. In my experience, they’re plenty good enough, often overqualified.

All well and good but I never mentioned performance. Of course they’re able to do the job, no doubts there. But the bottom line is US companies are firing US workers not because they need to, but because they want an excuse to hire cheaper workers through an immigration program.

There is nothing at all special about a US worker.

Welcome to the world, where people who aren’t from or in the US also need to feed their families, and have just as much a right to do so as Americans do.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#249

Post by thrw32845 »

burnerburnson wrote: post #103
greatpostman wrote: post #13

Generally not supposed to say this out loud, but being the only American on an all H1B team at these companies can be absolutely brutal. Very alienating, always missing out on back channel communications, no sympathy for missteps

I'm a manager of a team that's mostly H1Bs at Google. It's mostly fine but a few of them just refuse improve their English, and it's frustrating spending hours every day just being an English teacher to an engineer who writes at a 5th grade level. The problem with hiring too many H1Bs is they speak to each other in Chinese and thus take forever to become proficient at communicating with the rest of the company. Also,…

I find it interesting that H1B implies Indian or Chinese workers. As a South African I don't know why you don't hire more English speakers that would be H1Bs. I myself have tried to get an H1B and so far the door has been closed.

It's been easier for me to move to a European country where I had to learn another language.

Re: Google, Meta, Amazon hiring low-paid H1B workers after US layoffs

#250

Post by renewiltord »

horns4lyfe wrote: post #202
renewiltord wrote: post #128

I get it. High income antiwork congregates on blind and low income antiwork congregates on HN. H-1B hiring has dates that matter that you're lined up to do. Go read "Important Dates" here https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary... Ultimately, the Silicon Valley job market is bimodal. If you don't make $500k+ here, it's not because a H-1B worker is taking your job. It's because you're not good eno…

You clearly don’t get it, you just made an unrelated argument. And ya, obviously if you don’t make a half million dollars you don’t have a good enough resume and don’t interview well enough to make that much. That’s tiny portion of jobs and not what anyone here is talking about. Truly a pointless, navel-gazing comment.

The "low paid H-1Bs" making 2x more than people complaining those guys are in slavery has to be somewhat funny at least.

You've got to be better off than the person described as being enslaved.

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