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APIs for content sites must be free

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Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#271
post #192

Why not just make API accessible to paid "Reddit Gold" members?! Then there'd actually be a reason to get gilded up, and 3rd-Party Apps would still work for those paying members.

>Then there'd actually be a reason to get gilded up ... I have to imagine reddit has already thought of this and come up with some justification for why it won't work - because the proposed strategy is just so incredibly lazy. Ultimately I suspect the data somehow suggests (a) the network provider has to provide free access in order to sustain the criticality of the social network, and (b) charging for something that…

[deleted]

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain to me where Reddit is no longer free for Joe Consumer? It's the subreddit mods who are making the data inaccessible to you, NOT Reddit.

"It's the striking coal miners who are making heat inaccessible to you, NOT the mine owner"

Imagine comparing coal miners to the equivalent of internet janitors who volunteer to work for free as long as they get their share of petty power.

Tons of them are basically just protesting since they won't be able to exert said petty power as efficiently as they used to.

I can't imagine getting to a point where I'd defend Reddit powermods, even over spez himself. But even in your very shaky analogy, the mods are at worse the petty bourgeois, not some sort of proletariat of Reddit wtf.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#275
Putting a price on an API that is just there to parse website content is not a great idea to beginning with. It's open-door for scraping companies and uncontrolled traffic. At least it's possible to put a rate-limit on an API.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#276
This post makes no argument. It is just a pile of assertions. Simply stating that there is a "social contract" doesn't make it so. What evidence does the author have that "millions of users create the content expecting it will be widely available"? Even if that's true, what evidence is there that they do so with the expectation that it will be widely available through an API or through third party apps? And even if they do expect that, by what logic can you conclude that there is now a social contract that that expectation will be fulfilled?

I don't think any of that is true. I don't think people are thinking about third party app users or about the wide availability of content when they post things to Reddit or other social media websites at all. I don't think they're thinking about people using third party apps. I think they're thinking on a much more mundane level.

The whole concept of a "social contract" is fraught with difficulty too. It's a relatively niche idea to try to explain why people follow laws, or how laws can be justified. The idea is that we obey the law for the same reason we obey a contract: exchange of consideration for mutual benefit. But that's not actually a very good explanation, for a long list of reasons, and it certainly can't justify laws of universal application given that eg. children can't be bound to contracts they've signed and we apply laws to everyone even if they don't want us to. The concept certainly doesn't make sense in the context of a web API for a social media website. Even if everyone "expects" that their "content" will be widely available, it does not follow that there is any obligation, legal or otherwise, on Reddit to make it widely available. There just is no logical connection there unless you build one. This post does not. It simply asserts that APIs for content sites must be free. Why? Because!

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#277
post #86

All of your labor should be free also. What do you mean you want a six figure salary? How incredibly greedy of you. It's fair to pay you only what you need to survive.

> All of your labor should be free also. Yes, it is, and that's ultimately the contention here. Reddit has taken many millions of man hours of free labor. Now it wants to charge for the fruits of that free labor. Legally, they are within their rights to do so. Socially, however, it's thought to be uncouth to exploit workers like that.

Shitposting on reddit isn't "labour".

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#278

[ LAUGHS IN LEXISNEXIS ] Everyone seems to be fixated on the idea that the API should be free and no-one seems to be mentioning that there's some very successful business models built around charging people access to content which the parent company didn't generate. LexisNexis, for legal searches, Elsevier for scientific papers, Facebook, for random graph searches (and occasional political data scraping), Twitter, et…

LexisNexis does not just "charge people access to content which the parent company didn't generate". I could access most legislation through the government legislation website that shows the current version of every piece of legislation. I could piece together legislative history by looking through all the various amendments over the years compared to the originally enacted Acts. OR, I could look at LexisNexis, who have done all that work already and also have notes for pretty much every provision linking all that data together with academic and judicial commentary, major cases on those provisions, etc.

Similarly, I can look up unreported senior courts cases on the 'Judicial Decisions Online' section of the courts of New Zealand website, for free. But what about the notes written by experienced barristers in the law reports? What about the database cataloguing every judgment that has referred to every other judgment, giving an indication of whether the judgment is still good law?

It seems very popular these days to crap on businesses like LexisNexis and it does sometimes feel like they're taking the mickey given their prices and the terrible web interface to their databases. The fact you can't even 'open in new tab' properly is infuriating. But they're not just selling access to something that ought to be free, as many people seem to like to claim. They provide a lot more than just the raw judgments and statutes.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figured because they don't want 3rd party apps because they don't run ads for Reddit. Reddit wants users within their (soon to be) walled garden getting fed all of the monetization pressure systems. My take when Reddit said that Apollo cost them $20M a year, they weren't talking running costs but revenue potential because Apollo doesn't feed ads to its users.

I don’t understand, if API apps not displaying ads is the problem, why Reddit doesn’t include ads in the feed and make displaying them part of the terms for access. They could even have a revenue sharing agreement with the app developers.

This implies that the Reddit administration thinks things through. They have a track record proving they indeed do not.
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