Yes I think CA should be the next state to rid itself of sales tax!
As an opportunity to move to a more progressive tax system? Helping to reduce the tax load on lower income folks and shifting it up the tax bracket?
California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees
271–280 of 396 posts
Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not only that, but now everyone wants tips for things which never expected it before. Food cart? Tip. Fast food drive-thru? Tip. Heck, my barber now charges $25 for a haircut (which takes all of 15 minutes) and we're expected to tip for that too. Then there are tips that I apparently don't really know about but if I don't, I'm the jerk. I never knew I was supposed to tip the natural gas guy when he comes by to do som…
> Heck, my barber now charges $25 for a haircut (which takes all of 15 minutes) and we're expected to tip for that too. I think this comment perfectly encapsulates why tipping has exploded and why it's never going away. People say they hate tips, but they complain vehemently when the base price of those goods rises to a decent wage. In most urban areas I'd posit the reason for the explosion of tipping is because of t…
> I think this comment perfectly encapsulates why tipping has exploded and why it's never going away. People say they hate tips, but they complain vehemently when the base price of those goods rises to a decent wage.
I'm not complaining about the price of the haircut, per se. I guess I could have phrased it better. What's getting me is that they're raising the price steadily, every few months it seems. That's cool, inflation is real, they have to make a living, I get it. But if they're doing a good job ratcheting up prices to keep up with inflation, why do I need to worry about tipping them so they can make ends meet?
Yes, they're not up to software developer levels. But they do get carpal tunnel, so there's that. And they require a bit of training and licensing before they can work. But at $100/hr, lets assume the stylist is getting 50% of that. They're not poor, they're more than 3x our local minimum wage.
Even then, it would bother me that my tipping was required for them to make ends meet. I'd much rather pay a fair price and not feel guilty based on how much I tip, wondering if it's enough, etc.
Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees
#273As a foreigner who lived in the USA for a few years, I always thought the US runs in hidden fees. From tipping, to taxes not in the sale price, to insurances not being able to give a price for a procedure, to hotel fees… I could never actually guess how much anything would cost. Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry.
> tipping This has gotten ridiculous past 2-3 year. Buy a $3.00 coffee , $1 tip is expected. I hate those ipad type payment consoles.
The night after my first haircut in the US I was like “oh shit” and I googled “do you tip for a haircut” and realized I fucked up. The results were anywhere from 10%-50% tip.
The next haircut I got I asked “what is a good tip” and the hair cutter would not tell me. I guessed 20% and went about my day. Then someone told me “that was too low”.
I ended up cutting my own hair, or waiting until I was in another sane country.
Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
No; in fact sales tax is what’s shifting the burden in that direction. Income tax on the other hand is a progressive tax that keeps impact more proportional.
If you have the resources to declare residency in Texas and pay sales taxes from Oregon you are able to avoid paying most taxes. I am saying that most people don't have the resources to play tax arbitrage. Those that do are the ones that should likely be paying the most taxes. Going to a system were sales taxes go to 0 based on where you buy it (online in Oregon) doesn't mean that states will abandon the sales tax bu…
Interesting point; yeah, I agree that a significant population does not have the ability to move around. If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that in a world where all sales tax is zero, the wealthier population will be able to arbitrage/optimize over the remaining tax types they pay more easily than those less wealthy, resulting in a larger wealth gap. This argument could also apply inductively in a sense over those remaining types as well, since the optimization problem gets easier as we have fewer dimensions of tax types to worry about. What I’m thinking then is the improvement here isn’t to remove taxes entirely but to remove flat taxes like sales tax and replace them with more/varying progressive taxes that make arbitrage difficult?
I hope I’m not coming off as rude—really appreciate the discussion thus far!
Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Congrats. I have. Anecdote fight!
The point is, presumably, the websites of major hotel brands work the same for everyone. I would be interested in seeing an example of a “hidden” fee at a hotel. Same with airline prices. Google flight search has always shown me the total price, as have the airline websites themselves.
I'm browsing the Marriot site right now and the hotels that are classified as a "resort" [1] all have a resort fee attached, in addition to the sticker price, after I select my room.
That's the default behavior, but a point in Marriot's favor is that you can at least select a checkbox to include taxes & fees in the quoted price. However it then bundles them together and I still can't see how much is required taxes and how much is the hotel's resort fee. I can only see that breakdown once I actually select my room.
[1] https://www.marriott.com/travel-experience/resort-hotels/
Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees
#276> other than taxes and fees imposed by a government
IMO, taxes need to be part of the advertised price.
Part of the reason we tolerate hidden fees in the US is because we're used to paying more than the sticker price for something because it doesn't include taxes (and tip.)
If I lived in CA, I'd contact my reps and ask them to redo the bill to also include taxes and tips. It's not right to eliminate some kinds of hidden fees while still keeping government hidden fees.
Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it was better for businesses it would already be the common practice.
Not at all. A great example is health codes. Serving good, safe food is something pretty much every food business wants to do at the outset. Nobody opens a restaurant thinking, "Let's see who we can get sick!" But imagine your hamburger stand is next to a guy who's willing to cut corners. Use the older meat. Buy from the dodgier supplier. Maybe spend less labor time cleaning. Suddenly his prices are lower and you're…
Great analogy, never thought of it this way.
Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees
#278Can we also mandate any included taxes in the listed price, like elsewhere in the world?
kthxbai
Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not only that, but now everyone wants tips for things which never expected it before. Food cart? Tip. Fast food drive-thru? Tip. Heck, my barber now charges $25 for a haircut (which takes all of 15 minutes) and we're expected to tip for that too. Then there are tips that I apparently don't really know about but if I don't, I'm the jerk. I never knew I was supposed to tip the natural gas guy when he comes by to do som…
> Heck, my barber now charges $25 for a haircut (which takes all of 15 minutes) and we're expected to tip for that too. It's been customary to tip barbers since forever, hasn't it? When I was just 8, my father gave me money to tip the barber. I think the principle is, you tip so that the server remembers you. With haircuts, that can make a difference. My hair is now so thin and wispy that no barber can make it look O…
The way barber shops/salons work is the barber typically rents a chair from the business, some proportion of the fee you pay goes to the house and it is expected that the barber will earn some proportion of their money via tips. They also provide their own tools and products. Tipping barbers goes back at least to the 80's if not longer.
Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees
#280I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…
> airlines where the base price is akin to "we let you hang on to the wing", and everything else is an upcharge.
This would actually be a better situation. Instead the base price is "this would be what we would theoretically charge you to hang onto the wing, but since that's not legally allowed there's no possible way anyone could buy a ticket for this price." If they were selling food like that, there would be a "state-inspected and legal to sell quality upcharge."