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California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

oag.ca.gov

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Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#41

Post by lotsofpulp »

epicureanideal wrote: post #17
sneak wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This obscures the tax burden from the end user, transparently blending it with the price of the goods and the merchant's profit. Consumers should be consciously aware of the split.

Personally I find it very interesting that a $20 restaurant meal might only be netting $1 to the owner. Makes me feel like going out isn’t actually that bad of a deal.

Lots of retail businesses have less than 5% profit margin. Even insurance companies, including health insurance, have less than 5% profit margins.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#42

Post by themitigating »

grahar64 wrote: post #27

As a foreigner who lived in the USA for a few years, I always thought the US runs in hidden fees. From tipping, to taxes not in the sale price, to insurances not being able to give a price for a procedure, to hotel fees… I could never actually guess how much anything would cost. Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry.

"Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry."

Even if it does it's better than no law.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#43

Post by paxys »

wpietri wrote: post #20
eganist wrote: post #5

Tons of industries affected by this, though hospitality comes to mind as being particularly egregious. "resort fees" you can't get out of where they tell you what you're "getting" for those fees, Airbnb service fees, cleaning fees, things that should all be spread across the nightly rate. The feds doing this for airfare was the best thing to happen for consumers shopping for flights. Ideally we would take it further…

I agree with you on almost all of this, but I think the cleaning fee is different. It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. As an example, right now I'm looking at doing an extended trip, on the order of 2-4 weeks. I just need one…

The point isn't that it isn't a real fee (it may or may not be), but that it isn't advertised up front.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#44

Post by paxys »

causality0 wrote: post #30

I find it very hard to believe that in the long run companies actually profit from having such a confrontational relationship with their customers. Like is getting an extra five dollars a month from me really worth me hating you?

The problem is that shareholders and "activist investors" aren't exactly thinking about the long term. It's in their best interests to covert a company's goodwill into hard cash, do a series of share buybacks with the money, and then get out of the position.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#45

Post by rootusrootus »

sneak wrote: post #11
switz wrote: post #8

Taxes and fees should be mandated for all prices up front. This is how it works in most of the world, there's no good reason it shouldn't work that way here in the US. Someone will come along and point out an edge case, but for the vast majority of retail situations this is doable.

This obscures the tax burden from the end user, transparently blending it with the price of the goods and the merchant's profit. Consumers should be consciously aware of the split.

So, the same reason we can't have the convenience of pre-filled tax returns from the IRS? People need to be able to feel the pain of the taxes they pay, because it might help bring them closer to the ideological conservative viewpoint.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#46

Post by 8ytecoder »

jawns wrote: post #32

"Californians are fed up with being bombarded by junk fees that, more and more, are making it unaffordable to attend a concert, go to a sporting event, take a vacation, or stay at a hotel." Oh, believe me, state Senator Nancy Skinner, requiring businesses to disclose these fees up front is not going to make these purchases any more affordable. Companies will either maintain the fees but comply with the disclosure req…

Assuming the companies are not hiding the fees for shits and giggles, we should see an impact albeit not as large as the entire fees but not $0 either.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#47

Post by yanderekko »

eganist wrote: post #33
wpietri wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on almost all of this, but I think the cleaning fee is different. It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. As an example, right now I'm looking at doing an extended trip, on the order of 2-4 weeks. I just need one…

> I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. I disagree with this, and it's easily handled on the backend too. If the cleaning fee is e.g once per trip or once every few days, smear that cost across the cost of the stay for your effective nightly rate. Frankly, how much it costs to cle…

>If the cleaning fee is e.g once per trip or once every few days, smear that cost across the cost of the stay for your effective nightly rate.

This misses the point that it's useful to have the one-time costs separated from the nightly costs so that consumers can better understand if they can get a better nightly cost by extending their stay (or even ideally from having options over those fixed costs.) It's the same logic as separating shipping costs from unit costs in online sales, because you can often save on shipping by spreading the cost across multiple units and it benefits the consumer to know this.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#48

Post by lockhouse »

wpietri wrote: post #24
switz wrote: post #8

Taxes and fees should be mandated for all prices up front. This is how it works in most of the world, there's no good reason it shouldn't work that way here in the US. Someone will come along and point out an edge case, but for the vast majority of retail situations this is doable.

And it's better for businesses too! They get to compete on honest things like quality and cost, not BS like tricking you into weird fees.

If it was better for businesses it would already be the common practice.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#49

Post by wpietri »

eganist wrote: post #33
wpietri wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on almost all of this, but I think the cleaning fee is different. It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. As an example, right now I'm looking at doing an extended trip, on the order of 2-4 weeks. I just need one…

> I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. I disagree with this, and it's easily handled on the backend too. If the cleaning fee is e.g once per trip or once every few days, smear that cost across the cost of the stay for your effective nightly rate. Frankly, how much it costs to cle…

Isn't this:

> shouldn't be a separate calculus when comparing rooms

Solved by this:

> AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it.

The reason I put it that way is that the "smear that cost across the cost of the stay for your effective nightly rate" is hiding a number that I then have to reverse engineer if I'm looking at stays of different lengths. Since I work remotely, I could easily stay an extra week or two, but I won't do it in a place that is going to gouge me for cleaning I don't need.

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