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Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

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Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#271

Post by saalweachter »

fatboy wrote: post #197
6510 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just sold some tools for 5 euro each. They need new batteries but company is gone. Makita can just continue to sell their old batteries while their new tools use a standardized form factor. They could also make an old type battery with replaceable cells.

I have five or six Makita 18v batteries and a load of their tools. If they only make new tools with the new battery they are potentially making me quite miffed. If I want the new tool I need also the new batteries and charger. Also I'd need multiple batteries because you can't really only have one. Personally I'd be happy for that situation because of the big upside, but I can see why a company would not want it. Plu…

> But who gets to be the golden brand whose battery system remains unchanged?

The first one to make all relevant patents & designs available royalty-free.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#272

Post by justnotworthit »

hemloc_io wrote: post #57
otippat wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think three-strikes laws exist anywhere other than in the US to be honest.

noone else is as beholden to baseball metaphors as us. There's even judges who love baseball so much they quote it in opinions lol.

Whenever someone goes in a long baseball analogy to make a point, i start looking around the room uncomfortably.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#273

Post by edgyquant »

tremon wrote: post #248
dahfizz wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is not a child's cartoon. It can be simultaneously true that Google is a scummy monopolist and the EU is not acting in good faith.

If you're accusing others of acting in bad faith you need to substantiate that. With a proper argument. Otherwise you're not acting in good faith yourself.

I wouldn’t use the term bad faith but it’s clear the EU wants American big tech out

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#274

Post by stephen_g »

6510 wrote: post #178
fatboy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a bit trickier. If Makita or whoever was forced to change their batteries, anyone with a big catalogue of their tools would be pretty miffed. Also, I've mentioned this on hn before, there is already the Cordless Alliance, which does exactly this. Sadly, there's only a couple of useful-in-a-mainstream-sense brands in there: Mafell and Metabo. The rest are very niche.

I just sold some tools for 5 euro each. They need new batteries but company is gone. Makita can just continue to sell their old batteries while their new tools use a standardized form factor. They could also make an old type battery with replaceable cells.

As somebody who has a couple of Makita tools and batteries, it would be really bad if they were hypothetically forced to change. Specifically because not being able to get new tools that use my existing 18V batteries would mean buying a whole set of new batteries, and then it’s so annoying keeping two kinds of batteries that when the old ones wear out, I’d probably instead buy new tools for the new ones. So the old tools potentially become e-waste far sooner than they would be (the old batteries wouldn’t be available forever) as well as the waste of resources for the premature replacement of all the tools and batteries…

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#275

Post by 6510 »

fatboy wrote: post #197
6510 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just sold some tools for 5 euro each. They need new batteries but company is gone. Makita can just continue to sell their old batteries while their new tools use a standardized form factor. They could also make an old type battery with replaceable cells.

I have five or six Makita 18v batteries and a load of their tools. If they only make new tools with the new battery they are potentially making me quite miffed. If I want the new tool I need also the new batteries and charger. Also I'd need multiple batteries because you can't really only have one. Personally I'd be happy for that situation because of the big upside, but I can see why a company would not want it. Plu…

There is probably some sensible time frame to adopt a new battery.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#276

Post by lioeters »

feanaro wrote: post #132
capableweb wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Too difficult: you need to prove they knew and took a series of actions to get there, but it's very hard to do, and they usually have fall guys all the way to protect themselves. It's also easier than ever to destroy evidence. Make it illegal not to have a "custody trace" of how a decision came to be. Even if the CEO came up with it in the shower, for the thing to be implemented, it has to come across a lot of indi…

Yeah, that surely wouldn't grind everything to a halt and effectively make the existence of non-megacorporations impossible. No, what should instead be done is prevent the existence of these megacorporations which have disproportionate influence on humanity in the first place. Prevent them to form and chop up the existing ones aggressively into smaller ones.

I've long suspected that these "megacorporations" are nurtured for national security reasons, to consolidate and project power. The disproportionate influence is by design, a feature not a flaw. Especially since those who make the rules are owned by such powers themselves, including those responsible for intelligence (corporate spying, undermining workers unions) and regulation (not preventing Metalphabetamazons from dominating a wide range of industries).

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#277

Post by the_duke »

endisneigh wrote: post #185
hellisothers wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it’s a nuance but Apple doesn’t license its OS to other manufacturers. So while Google dictates “if you use the Android OS you must bundle Chrome”, Apple isn’t dictating terms like that to another manufacturer.

Technically Google isn’t really making anyone use Play Store, either. They’re free to use AOSP and bundle their own set of apps, no? In fact, I’d argue these rules the EU enforces are counter productive. Manufacturers should fork android and band together and create their own App Store. Google will either cede their position or we’ll have a viable, growing third ecosystem.

The Digital Markets Act and Digital Services Act will change a lot of things for both Apple and Google.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#278

Post by wiseowise »

malfist wrote: post #131
Normille wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The AOSP ecosystem has a healthy range of ROMs to choose from on many devices. But it's not true choice is it? It's just the same old same old with a different skin on top. Much the same as the similarly claimed 'choice' in Linux distros pretty much boils down to the same old same old collection of apps running on the same old same old collection of desktop environments. But with eleventy billion superficial skins l…

Are you seriously trying to argue that all linux distros are the same except for their UI?

Are they not?

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#279

Post by makeitdouble »

endisneigh wrote: post #214
makeitdouble wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about the contractual obligations Google forced on makers. What the user does with the device after purchase is out of the scope of this ruling.

No, what I mean is that manufacturers don’t have to include the play store if they don’t like Google’s requirements around using it?

Google forced them to take the Play Store and search widget (including default search engine) as a condition to get Play Services.

Play Services is required by a majority of android apps and developping and maintening a compatible system layer is just out of reach of most(all?) device makers.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#280

Post by antonymy »

The fallout from this should be interesting. This fine is a substantial part (roughly 25%!) of Google's overall revenue from the EMEA region (Europe, Middle East, Africa), of which the EU is probably like 90%, at least, of the total, so it's probably toing the line of actually making the EU unprofitable to Google considering the costs of future compliance to avoid being fined again. Worse: this was not as steep as the fine could have been, they could've fined them about double this amount under current regulations, but chose not to. Probably because that would have pushed Google's EU operations into the red for sure and made the decision easy for them.

To be sure the company won't be in trouble financially, their global revenue can cover the fine, but that doesn't stop the EU from potentially being a net loss for the company going forward. Abandoning the EU would be a drastic step, though. It's going to be interesting to see how they adapt to this. Another fine on this scale and I think they will pull out.

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