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Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

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Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#131

Post by malfist »

Normille wrote: post #87
imiric wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I may be able to choose from different manufacturers on the Android side, but on the software side there are just two options. What do you mean by "just two options"? The AOSP ecosystem has a healthy range of ROMs to choose from on many devices. The process of installing alternative firmware may not be for everyone, but the choice is there, which is pretty much nonexistent for iOS devices.

>The AOSP ecosystem has a healthy range of ROMs to choose from on many devices. But it's not true choice is it? It's just the same old same old with a different skin on top. Much the same as the similarly claimed 'choice' in Linux distros pretty much boils down to the same old same old collection of apps running on the same old same old collection of desktop environments. But with eleventy billion superficial skins l…

Are you seriously trying to argue that all linux distros are the same except for their UI?

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#132

Post by feanaro »

capableweb wrote: post #91
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too difficult: you need to prove they knew and took a series of actions to get there, but it's very hard to do, and they usually have fall guys all the way to protect themselves. It's also easier than ever to destroy evidence. The cost of going after those companies is ridiculous already, once they are proven guilty, it would be simpler if we could punish the company as a person, than to find a real person to punish.…

> Too difficult: you need to prove they knew and took a series of actions to get there, but it's very hard to do, and they usually have fall guys all the way to protect themselves. It's also easier than ever to destroy evidence. Make it illegal not to have a "custody trace" of how a decision came to be. Even if the CEO came up with it in the shower, for the thing to be implemented, it has to come across a lot of indi…

Yeah, that surely wouldn't grind everything to a halt and effectively make the existence of non-megacorporations impossible.

No, what should instead be done is prevent the existence of these megacorporations which have disproportionate influence on humanity in the first place. Prevent them to form and chop up the existing ones aggressively into smaller ones.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#133

Post by oblak »

MarkusWandel wrote: post #94
Hamcha wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when Google refused to put Youtube on Windows Phone and when Microsoft made their own client, Google forced them to take it off their own store? Truly advocating for more choice. (Press at the time: https://www.theregister.com/2013/08/16/windows_phone_youtube... )

I had a Windows phone. The web version of Youtube worked fine. The Youtube app on Android is such a pain in the a* that sometimes I use the web version of Youtube on an Android tablet I have!

I have only used the android version once and what a pain that was. Clearly designed to only push content on the unsuspecting user and nothing else.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#134

Post by ocdtrekkie »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #129
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy is the top concern I have with phones. The fact that 80% of them globally are compromised by default is a huge deal. Nobody informed should be rolling with Android, anywhere, and yet here we are. Also, I care about hardware... when it matters. Sell me a keyboard slider, the DROID 4 was the last compelling reason to care about hardware and we've all been bored senseless since.

If privacy is a top concern why are you walking around with a tracking device. Even without Google. It's literally a tracking device.

This is a defeatist justification for using Android that fails to account for the fact that neither Apple nor anyone whose app is on my phone knows where it is right now.

My cell carrier has a non-precise idea of where it is, but may not be able to tie it conclusively to my identity.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#135

Post by woeh »

Normille wrote: post #70

Cool. The EU does have its [many!] faults. But they have a pretty good track record when it comes to consumer rights and consumer choice. Next up I'd like to see them do the same for the plethora of incompatible cordless power-tool systems out there as they did with insisting all mobile phones standardise on a USB connector.

I was pleased to see recently that a couple of different brands at my local DIY store had interoperable batteries. I bought a small lawnmower which now uses the same battery as a cordless drill from another brand. The brands that joined are listed on their marketing site[0].

Edit: One of the companies has a slightly less obnoxious website which also lists brands[1]

[0]https://www.powerforall-alliance.com/en/#technology

[1]https://www.gardena.com/int/products/powerforall/

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#136

Post by Normille »

beAbU wrote: post #113
londons_explore wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cordless power tools typically have the battery management system in the device , not in the battery. The battery tends to contain protection circuitry, but no logic that determines charge rate etc. That means every device manufacturer will claim, even if the law requires that devices must all have the same plug, that a competitors device drew too much current, or charged their battery too fast/too slow/at too a…

I'm not sure that I agree with this statement. Many of the packs that I've seen the inside of has balancing circuitry included. Also worth considering these packs are charged separate from the tool. So this means the tool cannot control the charge rate etc. Lastly, based on my luddite eyes, the difference between makita, milwaukee, bosch, dewalt and ryobi batteries seem to me to only be a different keying in the plas…

  >Lastly, based on my luddite eyes, the difference between makita, milwaukee, bosch, dewalt and ryobi batteries seem to me to only be a different keying in the plastic mating parts
The fact that you can buy adaptors to allow one brand's batteries to be used on another brand's tools would seem to back up your theory. However, with the adaptors costing around £20 each and being produced by no-brand 'warranty voiding' unofficial third parties you've never heard of, it would be an expensive business if you wanted to be brand agnostic in your power tool choices, as you'd need a heap of adaptors to cover all the various combinations of tool & battery. Added to which is the potential for a dodgy 3rd party adaptor to damage tool or battery.

I'd like to see the EU designate a common battery interface for all newly manufactured tools & batteries. That way we could buy the best tool for the job each time, instead of being locked into using whatever the Blue, Yellow, Red or Green team are fielding in that area.

The manufacturers would doubtless also produce their own adaptors to allow their existing tools & batteries to work with this new 'One Interface to Rule Them All'

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#137

Post by deelowe »

beAbU wrote: post #113
londons_explore wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cordless power tools typically have the battery management system in the device , not in the battery. The battery tends to contain protection circuitry, but no logic that determines charge rate etc. That means every device manufacturer will claim, even if the law requires that devices must all have the same plug, that a competitors device drew too much current, or charged their battery too fast/too slow/at too a…

I'm not sure that I agree with this statement. Many of the packs that I've seen the inside of has balancing circuitry included. Also worth considering these packs are charged separate from the tool. So this means the tool cannot control the charge rate etc. Lastly, based on my luddite eyes, the difference between makita, milwaukee, bosch, dewalt and ryobi batteries seem to me to only be a different keying in the plas…

Of the tools you listed, none are made by the same company. At least for their primary products.

All of the large format packs have pins for each cell, so charging with a standard balance charger is pretty easy. You can find plenty of schematics for homemade controllers online. Where they differ however, are the other pins. Some use a communication protocol like SMBUS. Some have dedicated pins for specific things like overcurrent or temperature. It varies highly from manufacturer to manufacturer.

AFAIK, all tool brands are moving to communication protocols for the packs.

[EDIT] Someone mentioned adapters. I don't believe there are adapters that support newer communicating packs (e.g. the OEM chargers won't work with the adapter). Older packs are all analog, so conversion is just a simple matter of rerouting the pins.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#138

Post by layer8 »

endisneigh wrote: post #119

It’s not clear to me what the EU, specifically, wants Google to do here from the article. Any insight?

For example, not require that Chrome be preinstalled as the default browser on Android devices, and not require that a bundle of Google apps be preinstalled if any of them is preinstalled.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#139

Post by foepys »

synu wrote: post #84
p-e-w wrote: post #32

> This is Google's third EU antitrust fine. Previously, the search giant was fined in a shopping case and an online advertising case. Apparently, "three strikes and you're out" only applies to individuals, who with a repeat offense of this magnitude would have their lives destroyed by the justice system, and get locked away for a decade or more.

Wow, what country has three fines and you go to jail for a decade? That sounds intense.

RICO laws in the United States work that way.

> Under RICO, a person who has committed "at least two acts of racketeering activity" drawn from a list of 35 crimes (27 federal crimes and eight state crimes) within a 10-year period can be charged with racketeering if such acts are related in one of four specified ways to an "enterprise." Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and sentenced to 20 years in prison per racketeering count. In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of "racketeering activity."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corru...

The Wikipedia article also lists a few famous cases.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#140

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

oblak wrote: post #120
londons_explore wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really matters is how many dollars did they take from european citizens and businesses, and how many tax and fine dollars did they return. Europe needs to make sure these tech giants get to keep just enough money that they don't pull out of europe entirely, but not much more. Big fines are a start, but a better approach is taxation, since that takes away the regulatory risk for the companies.

Huh? The EU tech sector would absolutely love the US giants pulling out (phrasing) of Europe. Who wants to fight all these behemoths that pay almost no taxes here because they "invest" so much

Let's imagine for a second that someone really wanted FB out of Europe. FB would fight tooth and nail to stay - because losing the European market would be a huge blow to them. Practically every European business at least tried using FB ads, some have permanent campaigns. There is no way FB would ever leave Europe. They will fight, they will pay, they will protest, but the chances of them leaving are exactly zero.
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