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The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn

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Re: The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn

#271
post #270
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it." Pretty sure the owner of the largest pile of wealth ever assembled and the top political newspaper in the country fits well within the framework of this country's institutions. There's nothing bizarre about a mob coming for the assholes who hoard all the wealth and consign the masses to subsistence level existence. In fact this dynamic is pr…

Is this how you really feel about the Fortune 500 companies that participate in your From Day One conferences? That their leaders should be lynched?

I'm expressing a very uncontroversial opinion, which is that the state should have a monopoly on violence, and that the state should be run of, by, and for the people. If the roles that should be assigned to government ever become so corrupted by corporate interests that the institutions that control our life are no longer recognizable as democratic they should be overthrown by force if necessary.

This is the founding principle of America, and I'd be happy to advocate for it in any forum. It sounds like you have an alternate worldview and that's fine too, perhaps we can agree to disagree on this point.

Re: The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn

#272
post #218
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Senior engineers would make NFL wages That is an absurd exaggeration, unless by "senior engineers" you are including people who do a lot more than "just" engineering, e.g. build companies, build products, etc. The reason NFL wages are so high is not just that they bring in a lot of money, it's that the players are to a large extent irreplaceable. If you take the, say, 500 most talented players in the US at a give…

> If you take the, say, 500 most talented players in the US at a given time, you can't just replace them with the next 500 most talented players and get the same outcome I genuinely believe that a league made of the 500-1000 rank players would be just as (or at least almost as) entertaining as one with the top 500 players. Relative rank is what matters and it's why NCAA March Madness is so popular despite being made…

Absolutely. I think it's worth thinking through the difference to software - because it's a competitive field, as you said, the relative rank matters, and therefore getting the best player is important for your team, unless they are for some reason no longer playing. E.g. Michael Jordan was a huge draw when he was playing, and made his team relatively better off (and the league as a whole).

In software, that's not the way it works. Or at least, the competitive business aspect of it is largely out of engineer's hands. Few businesses ultimately succeed because they wrote better code, IMO. Though interestingly, a bunch of startups only get big in the first place by having great code that allows them great speed/flexibility/etc. Stripe itself got big originally because its API was really great, which I'd attribute more to product than to engineers, except in this case it's kind of a merger of the two.

Re: The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn

#273
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know one or two democratic countries that are doing OK despite being democratic. Democracy doesn't have to be leaderless: we have a good few hundred years of experience in running entities many times more complex than a company using democratic processes, appointing leaders by vote etc.

I don't want the companies providing essential goods and services to run as inefficiently as governments do. It would be disastrous.

There are many more governments than companies providing essential goods and services. And in times of crisis (say, flooding or fires), it's the military and other government entities that have to step in to fix things, never private companies.

Re: The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CEO of Amazon has a $212mm compensation package. That’s what I based my estimate off. And I’m sure we can all agree that $212mm is more than “hardly any salary.” I could retire on that amount, have my alma matter name a building after me and still have more money than I know what to do with.

Jeff Bezos isn't the CEO of Amazon anymore.

What is the board supposed to do then? Dilute Bezo’s and everyone else’s holdings?

Re: The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeff Bezos isn't the CEO of Amazon anymore.

What is the board supposed to do then? Dilute Bezo’s and everyone else’s holdings?

I don't think the board is doing anything wrong, personally. I just don't think Jeff Bezos' income was ever anything close to what Andy Jassy is making, for the exact same reasons that Tim Cook's income is higher than Steve Jobs'.

Re: The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn

#276
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Fundamentally, tech workers don’t seem to understand this point mainly because they are making more money than “everyone else.” The other reason is that we as humans don’t understand big numbers. Big ape brains can’t understand the gap between $1 million and $1 billion let alone 100 billion. If software engineers would have banded together a long time ago to get a larger piece of the pie like professional at…

> - Senior engineers would make NFL wages That is an absurd exaggeration, unless by "senior engineers" you are including people who do a lot more than "just" engineering, e.g. build companies, build products, etc. The reason NFL wages are so high is not just that they bring in a lot of money, it's that the players are to a large extent irreplaceable. If you take the, say, 500 most talented players in the US at a give…

> The reason NFL wages are so high is...

...because they formed unions.

Re: The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about how and why the deal was structured that way. Amazon is structured so that there is net 100,000 dollars of wealth in the deal betweeen you and him that goes to him (whatever goes to you, he also gets 100k. I am sure you have no complaints, but why the 100k? why can't that be 50k to him and 50k to you.? Or 33, 33 and 33 extra in tax? or ... And is the particular arrangement something that is fundamental and…

Fine, so what's stopping you from starting a business that does exactly the same thing Amazon does, except you make less money and you pay your employees more, and then you go ahead and poach Amazon's entire workforce? If that's actually possible, you should do that, because if you only end up half as rich as Jeff Bezos, you'll still be rich and all of your employees will be better off. What's stopping you?

That's the easy part. Though I doubt investors will ever again allow 90s era Microsoft level of profit sharing

Amazon's secret sauce was cheap capital. Both tax holiday/avoidance and persuading Wall St to forego profits. A combo that's unlikely to be repeated any time soon.

Re: The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn

#278

I know the Collisons are brilliant founders and I have long admired Stripe (I've used their Golang API client as inspiration many times in my own code) but it's kind of unfortunate how founder lore really minimizes employees. Stripe has 4,000 people working there, this article mentions only two other employees in passing (the CPO and CFO). Surely many others were brilliant contributors to Stripe's becoming a $95B uni…

I think that this is not just a story-telling problem. It is a wealth-sharing problem as well. I don't know much about stripe, but think of Bezos as a pretty good example - to a O(n) rounding he has 100 billion dollars and 1 million employees. Why is he getting 100,000 from each employee ? Not because those employees send him a cheque. But because of particular outcomes of share capital, and corporate law. Decisions…

Here's the thing. The average person only cares about their economic growth up to a point. Study after study has concluded that once most people have "enough" money, adding more does not bring them any more happiness (with the rare exception of a increase being so substantial that it radically improves their social status -- let's say by at least an order of magnitude).

And studies have shown that people become unhappy when confronted with people who have significantly more than them - simply put, envy.

Therefore, one can easily argue that if economic growth is coupled to ever-increasing inequality, it actually begins to reduce overall human happiness after a point -- and if you "read the room" around the world, I'm pretty sure humanity has passed that point.

Just take a look at how society is structured today, where a 1% difference in achievement at some arbitrarily determined age can lead to a difference in expected lifetime income that is orders of magnitude larger. And that's not to mention the kind of personal wealth that, due to the properties of exponential growth, cannot help but grow, regardless of the competence of its owner.

Die-hard capitalists argue that this is the best economic system that we've ever had, but our sample size is very limited. We've only been trying this out for a minute fraction of humanity's existence, and the effects of this system have not reached a steady state. If the past few decades are any indication, capitalism has made the world worse off in many ways. It enabled our ancestors to leave us with many major unsolved problems, with blissful ignorance - issues that are given token acknowledgement in economics classes as "externalities," a term that doesn't even begin capture how important they really are for humanity's future.

I posit that overall human happiness plotted against economic inequality is maximized somewhere in between strictly enforced equality and the extreme levels of inequality that we see today. It doesn't take a genius to see it, but no one really talks about the middle. Perhaps sanity is too boring for this generation.

Re: The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn

#279
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Senior engineers would make NFL wages That is an absurd exaggeration, unless by "senior engineers" you are including people who do a lot more than "just" engineering, e.g. build companies, build products, etc. The reason NFL wages are so high is not just that they bring in a lot of money, it's that the players are to a large extent irreplaceable. If you take the, say, 500 most talented players in the US at a give…

> The reason NFL wages are so high is... ...because they formed unions.

Doctors also have a union and for the most part aren't making nfl wages.

I don't understand what makes people think that software engineers are so valuable that they'd get wages that are multiples of doctors.

Re: The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s also difficult when people set up dichotomies like Bezos vs his workers and disregard the entire world.

No, not really. Pointing out the injustice of a company mistreating and burning out its workers in order to produce one of the richest billionaires, usefully illustrates the inequality we face globally.

Evidently it doesn't.
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