Live data from Hacker News

Is It Even Worth Working on FOSS Anymore?

gavinhoward.com

271–280 of 284 posts

Re: Is It Even Worth Working on FOSS Anymore?

#271
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Log4Shell and Heartbleed were nasty security bugs, but imagine living in a world where every single software shop wrote their own logging libraries or SSL libraries. 99% of them would have far worse vulnerabilities. It would be like '90s php cowboy coding.

Absent open source we would all be buying those libraries from small software shops just as happened in the ninieties before OS become so prevelant.

I worked with small shop library. It was complete crap. We used, because management decided so.

But no, it was not all that kuch prevalent. Instead, people wrote their own almost everything.

Re: Is It Even Worth Working on FOSS Anymore?

#272
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find thins point of view equally absurd as all the abuse on maintenners of Foss. It is standard for production code to rely on third party libraries. Not just standard, but the opposite is considered bad thing - you are not supposed to implement everything from scratch. If you do, you will end up with more bugs and issues. There is nothing, absolutely nothing in development last 30 years that would say "it is bad t…

Using third party libraries in production libraries, regardless of its license, means you audit, vet, and test as much as possible the consequences of bringing in the library. And going through the same process every time you update the library. "Who does that?" Good software engineers do that.

That is just not a thing that would be expected or normal. Not for run of the mill commercial software

It would also be irrational. The rare security issue like this is kot a good enough reason for such massive undertaking. You manage risks, you are not supposed to act purely out of fear.

> Good software engineers do that.

The amount of effort required would necessitate management sign up for this. And they won't, because it is not rational thing to do for majority of software.

Re: Is It Even Worth Working on FOSS Anymore?

#273
I find the entire notion of FOSS contributors looking for "their cut" to be a flawed understanding of what FOSS is, why it exists, and how it is supposed to work. This is viewing FOSS from a very specific perspective that's associated with capitalist economics and broadly how it treats intellectual property. It's as if some developers committed their code to projects expecting some sort of informal, unspoken, "scratch your back..." sort of patent agreement. If you want to use FOSS to make money, then go right ahead. If you have some kind of philosophical or principled view that finds the notion of for-profit software abhorrent, then don't--but also don't then expect those who did to turn around and toss a $20 bill at you. You aren't entitled to part of their success. What you are entitled to is the freedom to take the same FOSS they used and have a go at creating something of your own. This is the compact. If you find it distasteful, then do as the author did and ask yourself if it's really what you want to spend your efforts on. I personally think there is a great deal of inherent value in FOSS, and I have never for one moment thought that it's some zero-sum game where anyone else's behavior, beliefs, approach, success, or failure in any way subtracts from what I can achieve.

A lot these philosophical debates around FOSS remind me of similar discussions regarding socialism and anarcho-communism. There is a great deal of useful thought and objectively good ideas to be taken from these socioeconomic theories. I subscribe to a considerable number of them, and put forth a considerable effort to put into practice the values and beliefs they espouse. But pragmatically speaking, free-market capitalism and constitutional democratic republics are going to be the dominant economic and political systems for the foreseeable future. Certainly my lifetime. So every time I encounter a fundamentalist or someone who flatly refuses to engage with any entity or ideal that runs counter to their anarcho-communist orthodoxy, I cringe with the anticipation of hopelessly idealistic platitudes and the associated injured ego that the greater world won't "listen" and fall in line.

Yes, FOSS was/is/will be exploited by dishonest actors. It will go unappreciated by the large majority of those who benefit from it. It will never be as commercially viable as other more exploitative business models. It will likely remain an esoteric niche, even if it continues to be the buzzword darling of the tech industry. Twas ever thus. Just remember, you can't write code if you're wringing your hands. We contribute because for us personally the benefits outweigh the risks/burdens. We do it because we believe in the free and open exchange of ideas. We do it because we find satisfaction in the act of creating novel things and sharing them with others. We do it because we want to give back to a community that has already provided us with considerable value. If you're doing it because you're looking for glory and wealth, I invite you to look elsewhere. Viva la revolución!

Re: Is It Even Worth Working on FOSS Anymore?

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So don't contribute to open source because of China/rogue countries? OK then.

More like: don't expect totalitarians to give a damn about some little hippy license. Rule of law means nothing to the CCP.

But the question is, should that be a reason not to contribute to open source? Also they do steal proprietary stuff, too? What about child pornography, people hosting it using open source software? Seems like a better reason not to contribute.

Re: Is It Even Worth Working on FOSS Anymore?

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like: don't expect totalitarians to give a damn about some little hippy license. Rule of law means nothing to the CCP.

But the question is, should that be a reason not to contribute to open source? Also they do steal proprietary stuff, too? What about child pornography, people hosting it using open source software? Seems like a better reason not to contribute.

Did I ever say you shouldn't contribute to open source?

Re: Is It Even Worth Working on FOSS Anymore?

#277

Just a very tangential note about the last part of the post > I can't even get a job IMHO, making a single contribution to an important FOSS project (e.g. Linux kernel, a major programming language or a widely used library), although not easy, will definitely land a job very easily for anyone.

Author here. I have code in FreeBSD. Does that count?

Don't mean to contradict your experience, but IMHO, yes.

I think that being an upstream FreeBSD contributor will make it easy getting a job in some areas/companies. It speaks much louder than (formal) qualifications IMO.

Re: Is It Even Worth Working on FOSS Anymore?

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the question is, should that be a reason not to contribute to open source? Also they do steal proprietary stuff, too? What about child pornography, people hosting it using open source software? Seems like a better reason not to contribute.

Did I ever say you shouldn't contribute to open source?

Not you, but the original article.

Re: Is It Even Worth Working on FOSS Anymore?

#280

If I make a pencil and give it to someone, and they use it to draw a picture that they sell for $10m, they haven't ripped me off. They've added a lot of value to that pencil. I haven't lost anything. They haven't "profited from my work". They've done something pretty amazing using a tool I created. Good for them. FOSS is the same. The idea that people are taking FOSS code and building billion dollar companies with it…

The pencil analogy reminded of this quote "

I, Pencil, simple though I appear to be, merit your wonder and awe … if you can become aware of the miraculousness which I symbolise, you can help save the freedom mankind is so unhappily losing. I have a profound lesson to teach. And I can teach this lesson better than can an automobile or an airplane or a mechanical dishwasher because — well, because I am seemingly so simple.

Simple? Yet, not a single person on the face of this Earth knows how to make me.

"

REF: https://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl.html?chapter_n...

Post reply on HN