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The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

dynomight.net

271–280 of 371 posts

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overall harm or benefit to the community is certainly related to how many and likely those bad decisions are that result in a specific harm/benefit.

Something like this? https://www.vox.com/2014/5/19/5727712/drug-alcohol-deaths

Well yeah. I'm all for locking up drunk drivers, offering rehab and then permanently revoking their drivers licenses if they do it again. That goes to the second decision to adversely affect others.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to be fair. Your drug use can't put me in the ICU.

> Your drug use can't put me in the ICU. Take this to its logical conclusion, please. It's the big bang's fault!

I think https://hyper-traditionalist.tumblr.com/ would agree, advocating against the multidimensionality and expansion from the Big Bang (and yet, would also object to being described as being for or against any position, because a position would imply dimensions.)

Return to gravitational singularity, and all that.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#273
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Alpha variant of COVID-19 was strongly suppressed by the vaccines that were approved in the US, and also the others globally. Since around early Summer Delta has been the dominant variant, which is extremely more transmissible. Even if vaccinated, Delta still retains effective transmutability, though (maybe?) to a reduced degree even for fully vaccinated individuals. Since we still don't have sufficient tests to…

> Even if vaccinated, Delta still retains effective transmutability, though (maybe?) to a reduced degree even for fully vaccinated individuals. If vaccine works to protect people who are vaccinated, but does not significantly reduce transmissibility, why force it on people who don't care about being protected? Do they not have a right to make their own choices when it comes to their own bodies? If not, why do we want…

Why, greater social goods and responsibility:

The vaccines still do seem to reduce infection among those who are exposed, and contribute to reducing (even if no longer eliminating) how contagious someone is when they are infected.

Combined with mask use while in public situations...

* Strangle out and eradicate the disease, or at least make very rare.

* Vastly decrease the load on our EMS and hospitals, which they could DIRELY use after almost 2 years of this BS and several waves of "beyond really bad" a year.

* Protect those who are not YET eligible for a vaccination, and who's parents hold views that prevent these innocents for receiving the most protection for disease possible.

* Reduction of spread, even if it doesn't eliminate the disease, will deprive it of chances to mutate which is better for everyone overall. Successful mutations will be like Delta vs Alpha, anything that we consider worse, relative to existing strains.

I would like the pandemic to END sometime, and we aren't getting there until as many as possible GET the vaccine and we finish the job of arming everyone to win the war.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#274
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meth was legal until the 70s, society functioned. The current problem is another side effect of the war on drugs https://www.history.com/topics/crime/history-of-meth

This is very much false, and completely contrary to the actual history. War on drugs only happened because of greatly increased social dysfunction due to drugs, not the other way around. It enjoyed wide social support at the time it was started, precisely because people saw how damaging the drugs are to their communities. The idea that drug-related social dysfunction is an effect of war on drugs is yet another of tho…

No. The war on drugs was an acknowledged political act to disenfranchise black people and the anti (Vietnam) war movement. Lopez, German (March 22, 2016). "Nixon official: real reason for the drug war was to criminalize black people and hippies". Vox. Archived from the original on May 30, 2017. Retrieved June 13, 2017.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pharmacologically, amphetamines are no worse on your mouth than regular nicotine or caffeine usage. And while cigs & coffee aren't necessarily good for your oral health, they also don't generally cause major gum disease and tooth loss. "Meth mouth" is mostly caused by neglect, not the biological effects of amphetamines. Long-term heroin & crack users suffer the same kind of severe tooth decay as meth addicts. If you…

That's incorrect, at least in the case of cigarettes. According to the CDC, you have twice the risk of gum disease if you smoke versus nonsmokers. They also state that the more you smoke and the longer you smoke, the greater your risk. That doesn't directly imply a causal link, but it sure winks really obviously in the direction of one. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/campaign/tips/diseases/periodont...

For some perspective, "Twice the risk of gum disease" is pretty tame. Try losing 90% of your adult teeth... That's the level of dental prohlem that lomg-term addicts have to deal with, after 5-10 years of street life. Smoking cigarettes doesn't even come close.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#276
post #254
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we aren't talking about plans to regulate meth; it's already very heavily regulated. We're talking about plans to partly deregulate meth, which we can expect to significantly reduce the cost of the drug, from the US$50 or more per gram described in this article down to US$1 per gram or less like other synthetic drugs with similarly simple synthesis routes. The US$50 a gram isn't the cost of operating the reactors…

So the way it worked out with marijuana is the legal stuff is a lot more expensive than the street stuff. Maybe it would be different with meth, but I'm not sure why. https://www.inverse.com/article/39899-recreational-weed-cali... Basically the whole legal drug movement is targeted at non-addicts to let them pay a premium for a sanitary, legal, controlled experience. The political justifications for the movement are…

In Canada at least in two provinces I've been to recently the price of mj has approximately neared par with the black market, more or less. You can still find some thats more expensive but you can also find some that isn't. The catch is that you have to buy an oz at a time to get that price - if you buy smaller amounts you will probably pay more than the black market.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#277
post #254
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we aren't talking about plans to regulate meth; it's already very heavily regulated. We're talking about plans to partly deregulate meth, which we can expect to significantly reduce the cost of the drug, from the US$50 or more per gram described in this article down to US$1 per gram or less like other synthetic drugs with similarly simple synthesis routes. The US$50 a gram isn't the cost of operating the reactors…

So the way it worked out with marijuana is the legal stuff is a lot more expensive than the street stuff. Maybe it would be different with meth, but I'm not sure why. https://www.inverse.com/article/39899-recreational-weed-cali... Basically the whole legal drug movement is targeted at non-addicts to let them pay a premium for a sanitary, legal, controlled experience. The political justifications for the movement are…

> Based on a number of California stores they investigated, the cost for an eighth will now range from around $50 to $65.

> told The New York Times in September that the black market price for an eighth of an ounce is around $20.

Just to share some Canadian numbers, in Ontario, CAD$3.57/gram at the low end through the government store. Of course you could purchase $10/gram or $15/gram if you wanted.

On the black market (clearnet) side, you're looking at around CAD$250 for 2 ounces, or CAD$4.45/g for some mix and match specials. I suspect you can sometimes find $99 ounces which is still $3.53/gram.

Can't really speak to quality of course. Not sure why California black market is going for $5.71/gram

The biggest difference between the black market and regulated market in Canada is the potency of edibles, or so I hear. Government wants to make sure nobody can get high if they mistakenly eat a box thinking its candy, which is kinda a problem if you want to get high.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#278
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s what happened in Portugal, after drug decriminalization — drug consumption there went up significantly (with exception of heroin, which went down, but it also went down in other European countries at the same time which did not decriminalize it). Full on legalization will increase consumption even higher. ...Do you have sources on this? My awareness of Portugal's situation is basically the opposite of that,…

Your own first link discusses this: > In the first five years after drug policy reform, use of illegal drugs rose slightly among the general population but fell again in the following five years. I remember looking at the actual figures, and what happened was that use of heroin in Portugal went down significantly, and use of all other drugs went up significantly, giving slight rise in total drug use on net. > Use amo…

>> Use among 15-24 year olds fell throughout the decade,

>This implies that use among other groups than 15-24 year old had not fell throughout the decade.

Within the context of logic, that is not an implication.

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#279
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the way it worked out with marijuana is the legal stuff is a lot more expensive than the street stuff. Maybe it would be different with meth, but I'm not sure why. https://www.inverse.com/article/39899-recreational-weed-cali... Basically the whole legal drug movement is targeted at non-addicts to let them pay a premium for a sanitary, legal, controlled experience. The political justifications for the movement are…

> Based on a number of California stores they investigated, the cost for an eighth will now range from around $50 to $65. > told The New York Times in September that the black market price for an eighth of an ounce is around $20. Just to share some Canadian numbers, in Ontario, CAD$3.57/gram at the low end through the government store. Of course you could purchase $10/gram or $15/gram if you wanted. On the black mark…

I didn't know this about Canada -- it's interesting.

It's not clear to me how the black market should go for more if you can just go into a legal place and buy there. What am I missing? Perhaps you need a prescription or something, and people can't get that, so they pay a premium on the black market? Or maybe the legal market limits how much you can buy? Something has to support a higher black market price, since after all it is more legal risk for the participants, and possibly things like risk of buying something unknown.

Or maybe the black market operates in places where there is no legal vendor and so can just charge more? Or they offer home delivery?

Re: The main thing about Phenylacetone meth is that there's so much of it

#280
post #2

Around a week ago, I came across this link here on HN that suggested that there's a new form of meth: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28938888 The theory is that new meth is based on a synthesis using a chemical called P2P rather than the old synthesis that used ephedrine. There are claims that this new form of meth is chemically different in some what that started creating schizophrenia around 2017. However, wh…

P2P synthesis was the standard until it became hard to get (controlled) and that's when ephedrine and pseudoephedrine reduction became popular, despite much higher precursor cost. The reduction pathway is also easier, but because it's so much easier, It's likely much dirtier, since so little care is needed to "succeed." Now that Sudafed and ephedrine Diet pills are controlled, and can't be bought retail by the 1,000 lot, the balance has tilted back to the original precursor.
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