An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology • Hacker News Board

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#271

Post by bambax » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

__afk__ wrote: post #247

I applaud Apple for this. It reaffirms the reasons why it's one of the few companies I feel strongly about. If you can't understand the logic of a decision like this, maybe you don't realize the mountain of suffering that is caused from people trading this material. I recommend listening to Sam Harris's podcast with Gabriel Dance (#213 - THE WORST EPIDEMIC) to get a better picture of the problem. The main beef people…

This system will only search for known images. If you make new images of child pornography, you're fine (or at least, you won't be flagged by this system). So this initiative does nothing to prevent child abuse.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#272

Post by robertoandred » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

digitalsushi wrote: post #39

donkeyd wrote: post #4

I recently listened to a Darknet Diaries episode on messaging app Kik. This app is apparently being used by many people to trade child pornography. In this episode, there was some criticism expressed on how Kik doesn't scan all the images on their platform for child pornography. I would really like to hear from people who sign this open letter, how they think about this. Should the internet be a free for all place wi…

The big reason I don't want someone else scanning my phone (and a year later, my laptop) is that last I checked, software is not perfect, and I don't need the FBI getting called on me cause my browser cache smelled funny to some Apple PhD's machine-learning decision. It's the same reason I don't want police having any opportunistic information about me - both of these have an agenda, and so innocent people get pulled…

The chance of you getting enough false positives to reach the flagging threshold is one in a trillion. And then the manual review would catch the error easily. The FBI won’t be called on you.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#273

Post by chopin » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

fragileone wrote: post #175

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #105

I know the privacy approach Apple has been pushing was just marketing, but I didn't care too much because I enjoyed my iPhone and M1 macbook. Because of this decision (and the fact that my iPhone more-or-less facilitates poor habits throughout my life), I'm considering moving completely out of the Apple ecosystem. Does anyone have any recommendations for replacements? * On laptops: I have an X1 carbon extreme running…

Laptop: Framework Laptop Phone: Pixel with GrapheneOS or CalyxOS. In the future a Linux phone when the software improves.

> Phone: Pixel with GrapheneOS or CalyxOS

I've seen this recommendation very often lately. As I am shopping for a new phone: Why is it that hardware directly from Google is recommended for putting another OS onto it (I've seen recommendations for LineageOS as well). What makes it better than any stock phone supported by LineageOS?

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#274

Post by thoughtstheseus » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

I support content filtering but it should be controlled and implemented by users.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#275

Post by adunn » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

Alternate take and apparently unpopular opinion: the US government can simply force Apple to give them a back door to access iCloud photos directly.

What Apple has done here is both way more complicated and way more visible than necessary, while being less useful to a government. The slippery slope and capability to exploit is cloud storage.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#276

Post by voakbasda » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

m3kw9 wrote: post #61

Yes how do they not allow govt to ask them to scan for their set of restricted hashes?

They won’t. This is the big problem.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#277

Post by john_yaya » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

sul_tasto wrote: post #199

how is this not a violation of the 4th amendment if Apple is performing this search on behalf of a government entity?

There is quite a bit of case law precedent over the past fifty years, notably US vs. Miller, that upholds the “Third Party Doctrine”: if you give your records to a third party, then the government doesn’t need a warrant to get those records. Personally I think that ruling is awful and needs to be overturned, but that’s not likely to happen anytime soon.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#278

Post by belter » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

fny wrote: post #158

sathackr wrote: post #42

US Government: We suspect the person in this photo of committing a crime. Here is your subpoena, Apple. You are directed to scan all iPhone and iCloud storage for any pictures matching this NeuralHash and report to us where you find them. Chinese Government: Here is the NeuralHash for Tienanmen square. Delete all photos you find matching this or we will bar you from China. Apple has at this point already admitted thi…

The Chinese government already has direct access to everyone's data and messages. There is no encryption. This is mandated. [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce...

"Apple CEO Tim Cook Slams Indiana’s ‘Religious Freedom’ Law"

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/apple-ce...

The hypocrisy levels are vomit inducing...

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#279

Post by ipodopt » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #256

ipodopt wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptop | Desktop: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystem... Router: https://www.turris.com/en/omnia/overview/ Media Center: https://osmc.tv/vero/ Cloud (Use TrueNAS Scale): https://www.truenas.com/systems-overview/ Phone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ Watch: https://pine64.com/product/pinetime-smartwatch-sealed/ Smart Thermostat: https://hestiapi.com/product/hestiapi-touch-one-free-shippin..…

The dell and lenovo laptops are nowhere the quality of the apple machines, sadly. I have a maxed out xps and it is a downgrade in all respects but privacy. :/

Nothing quite like apple. The step down is short enough not to stumble though :)

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#280

Post by tomjen3 » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

defaultname wrote: post #66

toxik wrote: post #3

Please talk to non-tech people around you about this. This overreach simply cannot stand, and from a company that sees success from touting itself as a privacy-centric alternative? These really are some dark times. I imagine that if the world had Stasi fresher in its mind, this would never have happened.

Anyone who engaged in such a discussion with a non-technical person is going to defacto seem like an advocate for child pornography, similar to how advocating for encryption can easily be twisted to being pro-crime. Having said that, there is an enormous amount of misinformation and fear-mongering about a pretty tame change. This seems like so much ado about very close to nothing. a) They optionally scan messaged pho…

The problem with this is that they can now scan images on phones regardless of upload, and it will render any future promisses of e2e iCloud deceiving.

I don't see a reason to do this, other than to either scan all images, or claim that iCloud is e2e in the future.

And of course they went with the protection of children argument, which is bullshit. Apple gets paid by its users and should have no other interests than to get paid as much money as possible, regardless of who pays them.