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An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

appleprivacyletter.com

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Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#151

Post by stevenicr »

donkeyd wrote: post #125
stevenicr wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe millions more nudes are sent via snap/watsap/etcetc every day then are sent in the mail in a year.. with "extremely low false negative rate" - if that means there are a bunch of geeks and agents staring at your wife/gf.. your daughter/ etc.. is that okay? Some people will say yes - but I don't think those people should get to decide that all the other people in the world have to hand over all the nudes and…

> I believe millions more nudes are sent via snap/watsap/etcetc every day then are sent in the mail in a year. I know for sure this is true, but this BS scenario was still used as a rebuttal against my comment, so I figured I'd give them an actual answer. > when they open mail with drugs and weapons it's most likely not ... other private pic stuff that no one else should be peering at. People order a lot of stuff tha…

Maybe some crossed wires in the discussion - I thought your initial reply was in regard to what gp wrote about letters - and then you were saying about xrays and weapons and drugs.. which generally are not an issue with letters..

think I brought too many examples in basically trying to say flat paper.. yeah I think most people assume boxes/packages are xrayed/scanned by usps - and people do still send stuff they would not want public that way.

we are in agreement in that "They would. But this is completely incomparable to what's happening on iOS devices now."

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#153

Post by zug_zug »

donkeyd wrote: post #102
toxik wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, my question is of course a rhetorical one. If I similarly draw other crimes being committed, the same does not apply. Why is that? And to address your explicit question, it is far too complex and specific to a given community to answer in any meaningful way here. I can tell you what isn't the answer though: deploying spyware on phones worldwide.

> If I similarly draw other crimes being committed, the same does not apply. Why is that? The answer is much more simple than you seem to think it is. Because the law doesn't say it is. I can only go by the law in my country, which is that (loosely translated) 'ownership of any image of someone looking like a minor in a sexually suggestive position' is a crime. Since a drawing is an image, it's a crime. Having an ima…

Yeah but he's using reducto-ad-absurdem to illustrate the law as written is absurd in some cases. So yes you can pedanticly cite the law and have an answer to the question, but you're missing the larger discussion.

At somepoint somebody is gonna actually have to tackle that looking at images, especially fake ones, might not only be harmless, it might be safer to let people get release from their fantasies (I'd be curious to see what the research says).

Some day, people will say "Obviously nobody cares if you possess it or look at it, obviously, it's just about MAKING it."

I think this is follow the process of weed (unspeakable horror, "drugs will kill you" in dare, 1-strike expulsion from high-school or college) when I was growing up, yet now legal to even grow.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#154

Post by isaacimagine »

jll29 wrote: post #119
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #82

I'm waiting for orthodox authorities to do stuff like reporting pictures of people (not just girls) without head coverings. or dressed in bikinis, thongs, or underwear (like a significant number of "influencers" do, every day). There are already places in this world, where a couple can be arrested for kissing in public. I suspect that the folks enforcing those laws, would have some real interest in this capability. N…

Or manipulating photos a little so the classifier deems them dangerous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXy6oX1iNoA

Or sending manipulated but otherwise innocuous photos to someone else so the classifier is triggered on their device. Yikes.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#155

Post by [deleted] »

XorNot wrote: post #50

Fixed: Chinese Government: Here is the NeuralHash for some child abuse imagery, please scan this user's phone and tell us if it's found. Apple: Sure we found it. Chinese Government: this user has unpermitted winnie the pooh memes. Send them to an internment camp.

[deleted]

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#156

Post by ren_engineer »

toxik wrote: post #3

Please talk to non-tech people around you about this. This overreach simply cannot stand, and from a company that sees success from touting itself as a privacy-centric alternative? These really are some dark times. I imagine that if the world had Stasi fresher in its mind, this would never have happened.

it still boggles my mind how naive people in the tech industry are, they fall for the same trick again and again over the course of decades. Same people who fell for Google's "don't be evil" and Google pretending to be better than the Evil Empire Microsoft are now shocked that Apple was really only in business for money from the start and the privacy stuff was just a marketing gimmick

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#157

Post by throwrqX »

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #99
throwrqX wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The boundary should be that user generated personal data that is on a user device should stay personal on a user device unless explicit consent is otherwise given. That's it. The argument is always well "don't you want to save the children" to which I give this example. In the USA guns are pretty freely available, relative to other countries. There is a huge amount of gun violence (including shooting at schools targe…

>> The boundary should be what is on a user device should stay personal on a user device. But how many apps only store the locally on the device versus sending data to the cloud, getting data from the cloud, or calling cloud APIs to get functionality that cannot be provided on device? Having the power of a personal computing device is huge, but having a networked personal computing device is far greater. Keeping ever…

Ah, I was talking specifically about user generated personal information. I have edited my post to make it clearer.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#158

Post by fny »

sathackr wrote: post #42

US Government: We suspect the person in this photo of committing a crime. Here is your subpoena, Apple. You are directed to scan all iPhone and iCloud storage for any pictures matching this NeuralHash and report to us where you find them. Chinese Government: Here is the NeuralHash for Tienanmen square. Delete all photos you find matching this or we will bar you from China. Apple has at this point already admitted thi…

The Chinese government already has direct access to everyone's data and messages. There is no encryption. This is mandated.

[0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce...

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#159

Post by rvz »

javajosh wrote: post #138
marcan_42 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux on M1 isn't ready yet for daily use, but we're working on it. Expect things to move pretty quickly in the next few months.

Link?

This person is the creator of Asahi Linux and the one who did the early work of Linux on M1 Macs. [0]

When it is ready, it will be ready and they will say so.

Until then it is not ready for general use and is still under active heavy development.

[0] https://asahilinux.org/

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#160

Post by todd3834 »

I appreciate the privacy concerns, I really do. But please, can we suggest an alternative that still benefits children the way that this will? Imagine being Tim Cook and learning that technology that you control is being used for things that everyone agrees is horrific to children. Would you be able to turn a blind eye in matter of principle? I’m struggling with my opinion on this one because I care so much about the kids this can help. For the first time I’m feeling like the trade off is more than worth it.
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