My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant • Hacker News Board

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#271

Post by ebiester » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 3:14 PM UTC

Maxious wrote: post #259

ebiester wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, there's nobody on this board that is more sympathetic than I am. I am 110% behind you with the DREAM act, and my money has gone to Immigration Equality which has lobbied for this issue. (For different reasons, but suffice to say I'm an ally.) There's one simple problem with changing immigration, and that's the system is working as intended. Farm workers can't unionize nearly as easily if they are undocument…

Georgia's tough anti-illegal-immigrant law drove a sizable fraction of the migrant labor pool out of the state, and as a result, "millions of dollars' worth of blueberries, onions, melons and other crops [are] unharvested and rotting in the fields." http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/georgias... Surely there would be some way to legalize low cost unskilled workers at the expense of giving them some b…

Bus them in from Atlanta and pay them legal wages and working conditions. Amazingly though, the price of food will go up.

It's a labor supply shock, not a shortage however. The people who would be hired would be inexperienced and more expensive.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#272

Post by neilk » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 3:27 PM UTC

knowtheory wrote: post #225

blrs wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Milton Friedman nailed it when he said that the biggest obstacle to a freer immigration policy is the welfare state. "[Throughout the history of the U.S.] you had a flood of immigrants, millions of them, coming to this country. What brought them here? It was the hope for a better life for them and their children. And, in the main, they succeeded. It is hard to find any century in history, in which so large a…

And yet Canada's population growth is almost entirely due to immigration (population growth by birthrate in Canada is flat or ever so slightly negative). Edit: actually the natural growth rate is every so slightly positive. Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_Canada_by_year#Co...

Immigration to Canada in the 21st century is not the situation you had in the USA pre-1914. At Ellis Island, as long it was deemed that you weren't insane, diseased, or a criminal, and could support yourself, you could get US citizenship in an afternoon.

Although Canada has the most liberal immigration policy of all industrialized countries today, it will still take an applicant years to become a Canadian.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#273

Post by pfedor » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 3:29 PM UTC

pmb wrote: post #180

lupatus wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has an orderly and, from what I understand from my immigrant friends and coworkers, not too difficult immigration process already. The meritocracy is here already. The article's author decided to cheat the system and be a criminal.

"Not too difficult". Hah. http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart-... The shortest route is 10 years.

It's not true. I got an employment-based green card a little over a year after I set foot in the country.

What is true is that the system is rigged against Indians and Chinese. If you are Indian and don't have a PhD, then yes, you may have to wait 10 years, probably longer in fact. Unlike the hardships of illegal immigrants, this hardly ever gets any attention though.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#274

Post by xxpor » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 3:39 PM UTC

rubashov wrote: post #191

anigbrowl wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US does have a high rate of immigration, but on the other hand it's underpopulated compared to other developed countries. The biggest reason to loosen restrictions on immigration IMO is that without doing so the US is going to have difficulty with the payouts for social security and so forth as more baby boomers retire and there are fewer new entrants to the workforce. This is a medium-term problem (~20 years), l…

The USA is overpopulated. Most population centers are facing fresh water and also sewage infrastructure crises within the next 20 years. We are full up. High productivity farm land is being destroyed by development at an alarming rate. The US is steadily becoming a food importer in category after category, where once we exported. This puts further pressure on our already abysmal trade deficit. This is also a national…

That indicates to me that we need higher density and less sprawl. And before someone says well how do we force people to stay close to the center, check out Portland, OR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_%28Oregon_regional_govern...

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#275

Post by baltcode » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 3:40 PM UTC

blrs wrote: post #219

nick-dap wrote: post #51

I'm in the same boat. It's been difficult. I cannot express how grateful I am to Jose Vargas for writing this story. I was brought here as a kid 13 years ago. I'm 24 now. I also graduated from a "top" university -- like that matters. I guess my parents weren't smart enough to get a fake social security card for me back then, I wish they were. I've also been fighting for the Dream Act for what feels like an eternity.…

I think Milton Friedman nailed it when he said that the biggest obstacle to a freer immigration policy is the welfare state. "[Throughout the history of the U.S.] you had a flood of immigrants, millions of them, coming to this country. What brought them here? It was the hope for a better life for them and their children. And, in the main, they succeeded. It is hard to find any century in history, in which so large a…

Thank you! Isn't the whole idea of fairness that people should be able to work to support themselves. Isn't that a basic human right? So to all the people clamoring for amnesty for Vargas but think Indian and Chinese workers don't deserve jobs, please think about the logical inconsistencies. The free market has benefited a lot of people. Its about time it also benefited the underclass of workers, who are not part of exclusive unions, whether they be SEIU, or protectionist parties in different nations.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#276

Post by l0c0b0x » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 3:49 PM UTC

ido wrote: post #245

freshfunk wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story was a moving one and I hope Vargas gets to stay. With that said, I think illegal immigration creates all kinds of societal problems and is unfair to legal immigrants. The problem it creates is that there's enormous stress on those that are illegal. They live in the shadows and can be taken advantage of. My own personal experience was driving in LA and being rear-ended by someone who then fled the scene (mos…

There is a legal system and many people every year try to go through that system like my parents did. I see illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see nothing fair about it. The problem is that if you are not a student there is basically no way to legally immigrate except: 1. Marrying an american 2. Indentured servitude via H1-B (hard to get, and if you leave your job/get fired you have to find a new job in tw…

You forgot sponsoring/petitioning a relative AND the visa lottery (a relative of mine was lucky enough to receive one of these, was able to bring his whole family here, eventually). It has taken us 20 years to bring about 35-40 relatives from South America (more are waiting--in line)... it takes time, money and a LOT of patience. Also helps if you don't get into problems with the law.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#277

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 3:49 PM UTC

ido wrote: post #245

freshfunk wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story was a moving one and I hope Vargas gets to stay. With that said, I think illegal immigration creates all kinds of societal problems and is unfair to legal immigrants. The problem it creates is that there's enormous stress on those that are illegal. They live in the shadows and can be taken advantage of. My own personal experience was driving in LA and being rear-ended by someone who then fled the scene (mos…

There is a legal system and many people every year try to go through that system like my parents did. I see illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see nothing fair about it. The problem is that if you are not a student there is basically no way to legally immigrate except: 1. Marrying an american 2. Indentured servitude via H1-B (hard to get, and if you leave your job/get fired you have to find a new job in tw…

[deleted]

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#278

Post by dennisgorelik » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 3:52 PM UTC

anonymous246 wrote: post #269

dennisgorelik wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no technical or business problem to process millions (or even billions) of immigration cases. Immigration cases pay for themselves. I wish I could be in business of approving/rejecting immigration petitions. That would be a very profitable enterprise. The problem is that US society is not culturally ready to stop unfair discrimination toward immigrants.

See my previous point. Patent cases pay for themselves too. But the federal govt. is so strapped for money that it takes money from these depts. And Congress is notorious for passing unfunded mandates. Unless you address specifics like this, I'm afraid what you are saying is just wishful thinking.

"Wishful thinking" is when you hope that government would process legal immigrants' cases faster if government spends some extra resources on prosecuting illegal immigrants.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#279

Post by 7952 » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:32 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #20

jeffreymcmanus wrote: post #15

Terrific story. I can't understand how even the most heartless xenophobe could possibly support the deportation of a someone who graduated from a US university. Utterly self-defeating from a social and an economic standpoint.

Crime has consequences, no matter how nice/good/smart you are. Do the paperwork, follow the process, come in legally - like my wife did.

Have you ever downloaded something from bit torrent? I hope they send you to jail.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#280

Post by haberman » Thu, Jun 23, 2011, 4:37 PM UTC

coryl wrote: post #231

haberman wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right, although I never said to open the border, nor hinted at any specific solutions. Exactly, you seem to prefer to philosophize and invoke moral criticism than to actually discuss practical solutions. > I think its really easy for you (or others) to say "country's full, you'll have to get in line like everyone else" I started this thread by arguing that we should have compassion for people who run into headaches…

Well, there might just be a difference in the way we see things. Its comments like these that bug me: I started this thread by arguing that people brought here as children deserve more leniency. Obviously, we don't hold children to the same standard as adults. However, the fact that its not an implicit belief (to give a child benefit of the doubt) and has to be explicitly stated by you shows (to me) a form of malice,…

> shows (to me) a form of malice, spite, arrogance, and a complex of superiority. Here's why: you already believe that this person is a criminal, that all illegal immigrants are criminals and should be treated as such.

What bothers me about your attitude is that you invoke a sense of moral superiority to defend what is nothing more than breaking the rules to get ahead. It shows more compassion for the people who will take what they want than the people who work to get it.

I can have compassion for people who come to this country looking for opportunity. But I have 10x more compassion and respect for the person who is stuck in their own country because they can't get a visa than the person who decided to break the law to get ahead.

I'm pretty sure that I would feel the same way if I had been born in Mexico. I've always been a "wait in line" kind of guy, and I'm pretty sure I would resent seeing the most impassioned defense of immigrants directed at the line-jumpers rather than the people who are still waiting in line.

> Another folly in your history books. See: slavery, colonialism, trade blocs, etc. Unfortunately for some, opportunity has literally been taken away and societies forever changed.

Ok, I've let this slide up until now, but this is a very poor attempt at implying that America has been a primary perpetrator of crimes throughout history or has somehow obtained success by "stealing" it from others.

Present-day Mexicans are mostly descendants of the Spanish and the indigenous tribes like the Aztec and Maya. The Spanish conquered and colonized the Americas for 400 years, destroying entire civilizations and enslaving the people. The indigenous people practiced human sacrifice as well as slavery. No civilization has clean hands when judged by the standards of today.

And what exactly do you think the USA did to "take opportunity away" from "some" (this turn of phrase conveniently implies a general feeling of guilt without being specific enough to evaluate). Canada seems to be doing fine, so how are you going to pin Mexico's relative poverty on the USA?

> By "most of the world enjoys", you probably mean the privileged elite.

No, I mean "most of the world." People who are forced to leave their home are called "refugees," which are estimated to be 62M people worldwide, or 1% of the world population.