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Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

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Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#271

Post by galaxyLogic »

h0l0cube wrote: post #240
galaxyLogic wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't go as far as to allege that gurus are "shady". Just that they have their own interest in the game, so they should be taken with a grain of salt. Same applies to more or less to teachers who benefit from ignorance and doctors who benefit from sickness, firemen who profit from fires and policemen who would lose their job if there was no crime. Not to forget priests who abuse the trust of their flock :-) See…

To quote myself, emphasis added: > alleged shadiness I can't speak on each and every guru out there, but many do seem to be eager to take your worldly possessions for you own benefit, and much of this is predicated on their self proclaimed enlightenment. The perverse incentives seem like a vacuum for sociopaths to occupy

You put it bluntly and concisely. Makes me think of Annie Lenox song "Some of them want to use you, some of them want to be used by you, everybody's looking for something". Other great related song is of course "Sexy Sadie" by Beatles :-)

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#272

Post by a9h74j »

bamboozled wrote: post #36
jrowley wrote: post #23

I have a very intelligent, kind friend who lives alone, got deep into meditation during covid, started hallucinating / getting increasinly paranoid, and ended up hospitalized for a couple of weeks and diagnosed with schizophrenia. She is doing better now but will almost certainly have to drop out of school. That's not to say meditation is a bad thing, or should be avoided, but it isn't without risk or harmless necess…

By "during covid", I guess you mean while isolating in lock down ? I'd be more inclined to suggest it was the isolation, loneliness and stress of uncertainty that would trigger something like that. It was a dark time. Curious if your friend started meditation hoping it might alleviate and already uncomfortable mental state, or they felt fine and just wanted to meditate for fun ? I'm not a doctor, or psychiatrist but…

Speaking to the possibility of other/multiple/connected upstream causes, there is this remark I once heard: "Meditation is what you do while you are losing touch with your friends and interests."

To me that can be appropriately unclear about what causes what.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#273

Post by mulberrybush »

dartharva wrote: post #132

As someone from India who was frequently forced to learn and apply meditation by overzealous parents in my childhood, reading this article and the explanations/anecdotes here was positively shocking. I never really got the hang of meditating, despite receiving training from branches of several international training conglomerates ( ISCKON , Art of Living , SRF ). But meditation as a practice, in the society I grew in…

In 1967 Gopi Krishna wrote about the side effects of his meditation practice and how he ended up with mental health issues and suffering for decades - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071RB1FQB. This book became very popular around the world in the 70s and 80s.

Unlike modern international meditation training institutions like Art of Living and SRF, traditional eastern systems always limited what level of practice was safe for 'lay' practitioners. The hardcode stuff was always reserved for renounced practitioners who would leave everything and go live with the teachers.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#274

Post by elbear »

labawi wrote: post #253
elbear wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about just the sense of self. I'm talking about the fact that the world is an illusion. In any case, I may not be conveying the message properly, because I'm still trying to understand these things conceptually. The book I mentioned does a far better job with this.

> the fact that the world is an illusion. I may not be disagreeing with what you mean, but one should be careful to differentiate between concepts, that are knowable, and things they refer to, which are not¹. Lots of confusion stems from mistaking the two. From what you were taught are apples to the world or ones own self. As an illustration, if I slap your face, you may argue it is an illusion, it may not affect you…

This is the risk of trying to summarize a big conceptual framework in just a few words. It leaves out a lot and its only hope is to entice the reader to explore further and discover that entire conceptual framework.

Even that conceptual framework can not describe what can't be described. It can only get you to experience again and again what can only be experienced until the moment that concepts drop off.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#276

Post by prophesi »

seigando wrote: post #269
prophesi wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're this far into the thread and you've yet to tell me why I'm so wrong, and why you're the guru. Edit: oops sorry for asking why your opinion matters and mine doesn't

>you've yet to tell me why I'm so wrong You're wrong about this. Maybe I haven't done it as explicitly as you want, but that's the point. For such a great 'meditator' you pay too much attention to your own thoughts.

> but that's the point

No, you're just an asshole. I don't know what I did to offend you so badly, but I hope whomever you're following for ethical and moral guidance shows you that the eightfold path is more than just right meditation. Please stop calling people ignorant and dismissive, get off your high horse, and pay less attention to your own thoughts. You have yet to say anything of substance. Not that I'm complaining; this exchange has been fun regardless.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#277

Post by jessermeyer »

tucosan wrote: post #261
jessermeyer wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I encountered this and wrote about it in other meditation thread. Here I've inlined it below. Meditation is a blade with no hilt. I _accidentally_ fell into a vipassana state of mind after the first time trying a particular religious chant, seriously, from out of the pains of boredom as a 20 year old. At the time I lived nearby mountains, and after 'coming to', I saw them through the window. I cannot describe to you…

I attended a Zen retreat in my late twenties. I had very little experience with meditation practice back then. We meditated four times for 90 minutes each day for about 10 days. It was a beautiful experience. The sangha was great. The food was simple but very tasty. When we didn't meditate, we worked in the garden and prepared food together. On the 6th or 7th day of the retreat I took a walk alone through the country…

Namaste.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#278

Post by CountDrewku »

chrispai wrote: post #80

The woman in the article was withdrawing from Zoloft during a very stressful time and went to meditate for 10 hours a day. It is not a surprise she had a psychotic break. Disregarding we have hidden memories that are locked away, it is established that our minds suppress troubling memories. After a long meditation time, they can come out. In my personal experience, I have had to discontinue sessions due to bad memori…

"withdrawing from Zoloft"

That's enough on its own to cause the issues being attributed to meditation. That also tells us she had prior issues even though the article seems to be trying to place the blame solely on meditation.

Antidepressant withdrawal is nothing to mess with.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#279

Post by bamboozled »

a9h74j wrote: post #272
bamboozled wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "during covid", I guess you mean while isolating in lock down ? I'd be more inclined to suggest it was the isolation, loneliness and stress of uncertainty that would trigger something like that. It was a dark time. Curious if your friend started meditation hoping it might alleviate and already uncomfortable mental state, or they felt fine and just wanted to meditate for fun ? I'm not a doctor, or psychiatrist but…

Speaking to the possibility of other/multiple/connected upstream causes, there is this remark I once heard: "Meditation is what you do while you are losing touch with your friends and interests." To me that can be appropriately unclear about what causes what.

"Meditation is what you do while you are losing touch with your friends and interests."

This makes no sense to me.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#280

Post by seigando »

prophesi wrote: post #276
seigando wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you've yet to tell me why I'm so wrong You're wrong about this. Maybe I haven't done it as explicitly as you want, but that's the point. For such a great 'meditator' you pay too much attention to your own thoughts.

> but that's the point No, you're just an asshole. I don't know what I did to offend you so badly, but I hope whomever you're following for ethical and moral guidance shows you that the eightfold path is more than just right meditation. Please stop calling people ignorant and dismissive, get off your high horse, and pay less attention to your own thoughts. You have yet to say anything of substance. Not that I'm compl…

I’m actually not.
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