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Firefox Was Always Enough

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Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#271

Post by throw_m239339 »

Mozilla doesn't have a real sustainable business model right now.

FireFox OS could have provided such model, in fact, its successor kaios is doing very well and one can imagine that in the future, it will be the primary OS of half the mobile users on the planet. 'Feature phones' aren't dead. They provide a cheap alternative to touch phones, are usually more robust, and allowing them to run web apps instead of MIDP stuff is a giant opportunity for any web actor.

Ditching Rust as a core component of the future of Firefox is also a demonstration that Mozilla isn't a tech focused corp anymore. Rust is going to yield a lot of result when it comes to security, memory saftely and maintainability and firing Rust devs was terribly short sighted.

So yes Firefox was always enough. Leadership at Mozilla doesn't get it.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#272

Post by [deleted] »

terracatta wrote: post #26

I think Safari is going to have the market cornered on technology pessimism (aka privacy features) and browser performance per watt on macOS and iOS. Google is rapidly locking down enterprise by building in tight integrations with Google Workspace/G-Suite (see: context aware authentication). In 10 - 15 years the web should be better than it is today. The first step in their recovery is to convey what their vision of…

[deleted]

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#273

Post by toyg »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #178

Recently switched back to Firefox after meandering between Edge and Chrome on multiple platforms (Linux, macOS and Windows) for work and non-work purposes. Firefox Dev Tools are fucking awesome. Firefox sync works great. All the extensions I want are here. It's fast enough in ways that microbenchmarks don't mean anything to me...and it's free as in Liberty (last but not least). I've been looking for a VPN, and even t…

Is Raindrop active? I can only find archived / discontinued stuff.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#274

Post by [deleted] »

ludocode wrote: post #48
thoughtleader31 wrote: post #17

Safari is definitely in the technological pessimism camp as that's Apple's party line on the open web. Safari has continuously caused "headache" to businesses that rely on tracking user behavior for years now, as Apple is very bent on protecting your privacy from every other company outside or inside their walled garden.

They claim to be in the technological pessimism camp. I don't believe their poor support for progressive web apps is truly about privacy and security, but rather to force apps to go through their App Store so they get a cut of the revenue.

[deleted]

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#275

Post by prepend »

zdragnar wrote: post #56
kd913 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any of this fundamentally beats the main problem. That being platform control and advertising. Google advertises chrome with it's services and is the incumbent. It's also preloaded and unremovable on Android. Microsoft advertises edgium on Windows and makes it unremovable. Apple only allows webkit and safari clones on their platform. Firefox even if it's the best browser in the world would have the same…

Chrome didn't dethrone IE and displace FF because google advertised it, it was legitimately the best browser at the time. FF was awful, and so was IE. I keep trying FF, but I honestly haven't found it sufficiently compelling to go back. I don't mix work hardware and personal business, so I don't need multiple profiles. I prefer chrome's debug tools. Maybe we will see how manifest v3 plays out with uBlock, that might…

> Chrome didn't dethrone IE and displace FF because google advertised it, it was legitimately the best browser at the time. FF was awful, and so was IE.

It started that way, then it dominated because every google search not using chrome popped up “Better with Chrome” or “Try Chrome.” Same with all of Google’s properties. There’s no way to disable this. That’s billions of free adverts every day. It adds up.

I think similarly back in the 90s that IE4 took off because Netscape4 was horrible and then stagnated, but dominated because Windows bundled and required it. They had bundled and required IE2/3 but those were inferior to NN3.

So being good gets them to critical mass and then anticompetitive forces got them to owning.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#276

Post by RealityVoid »

deadbunny wrote: post #156
RealityVoid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just switched a bit on mobile from Firefox to Chrome. I was annoyed by the fact that the address bar is at top in there and I think it's unfair to say at all points that the UX is better on Chrome.

Pretty sure there is an option to move the addressbar to the bottom in FF on Android.

I have it there by default on FF, I was talking about chrome having a worse UX on Android. Reading the original post, I admit I phrased it in a confusing way.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#277

Post by mshanowitz »

DonHopkins wrote: post #251
deadbunny wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 2nd link you posted Brendan Eich himself replies to you tell you to search for "constructive separation". So while he "quit" it didn't sound like he had much of an option. I disagree with his views and believe Mozilla did the right thing in severing ties but I don't think it's as cut and dry as you're making it sound. It definitely comes across as a "We expect your resignation by the end of the day or shit wil…

"Constructive Separation" is completely voluntary with both parties. Of course he had an option: the board ASKED HIM TO STAY! Not anything like being fired or asked to leave -- just the opposite. The irony is that Brendan wanted to "Destructively Separate" his victims who were legally joined together in same sex marriages, so it's especially hurtful that Brendan would throw that term around about his voluntary separa…

But it is your position that he should have been fired, correct?

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#278

Post by secondcoming »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #271

Mozilla doesn't have a real sustainable business model right now. FireFox OS could have provided such model, in fact, its successor kaios is doing very well and one can imagine that in the future, it will be the primary OS of half the mobile users on the planet. 'Feature phones' aren't dead. They provide a cheap alternative to touch phones, are usually more robust, and allowing them to run web apps instead of MIDP st…

Out of all internet users out there, how many would choose Firefox just because it's written in rust? An insignificant fraction.

That said. I've been using Firefox as my main browser for years. I only use chrome when a website needs it or works better in it.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#279

Post by mixmastamyk »

raxxorrax wrote: post #71
Miraste wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3. Invest more in Thunderbird the application and develop Thunderbird the privacy focus email service for independent professionals and small businesses. I know Mozilla's non-Firefox projects aren't popular here, but if Thunderbird really wanted a niche in the business world Mozilla would need to start an email service to go with it. The age of non-integrated email clients for the average user ended a while ago.

In my experience, the vast majority of corporate is hooked on Outlook, which is actually quite unreliable in its 365 version and constantly has annoying bugs and performance issues. It still might be a good idea to host an e-Mail service or create an Exchange pendant. I often wonder why there never has been a popular open pendant to domain controllers in Windows. I think there were multiple attempts, but I don't thin…

Pendant?

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#280

Post by DonHopkins »

mshanowitz wrote: post #277
DonHopkins wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Constructive Separation" is completely voluntary with both parties. Of course he had an option: the board ASKED HIM TO STAY! Not anything like being fired or asked to leave -- just the opposite. The irony is that Brendan wanted to "Destructively Separate" his victims who were legally joined together in same sex marriages, so it's especially hurtful that Brendan would throw that term around about his voluntary separa…

But it is your position that he should have been fired, correct?

It is my position that he should have resigned for the good of the Mozilla community (which he did, because what he did was hurtful and mean, and the consequences of his actions make him a poor leader), or justified his homophobic beliefs and kept his job (which I believe are unjustifiable, unless he has some new information that is news to me, which is why I think he should have spoken up instead of resigning if he had some special insight into why same sex marriage should be illegal, or simply admitted he was wrong and sincerely apologized, instead of clinging to an indefensible position).

Even anti-gay born-again Christian Gervase Markham certainly didn't hold back trying to defend his indefensible position against same sex marriage, and Mozilla never fired him or asked him to leave as he continued to speak out, until the day he died. And he too testified that Brendan wasn't asked to leave, either. Do you accuse him of being in on the conspiracy, too? How do you theorize they bought him off, a presumably morally upright born-again Christian?

http://blog.gerv.net/2014/04/your-ire-is-misdirected/

>Hi. My name is Gervase Markham. I’m a supporter of traditional marriage, and I work for Mozilla. In fact, as far as being on the record goes, I believe I’m now the only one.

>Many people who agree with me on this issue are very upset about what happened to Brendan Eich, our co-founder and, for two weeks, CEO of the Mozilla Corporation. Brendan was appointed and then, after 10 days under the Internet’s lens of anger based on his donation in opposition to the redefinition of marriage, stepped down and stepped away from Mozilla – to our great loss.

>I am assured by sources I trust that Brendan decided to leave of his own accord – he was not forced out. My understanding is that the senior management of Mozilla (many of whom disagree with him on this issue) worked very hard to support him, even if I would not agree with all the actions they took in doing so. However, he eventually felt that it was impossible for him to focus on leading if he was spending all of his time dealing with the continued, relentless news and social media storm surrounding the donation he made. In other words, he wasn’t forced out from the inside – he was dragged out from the outside.

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