Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#271

Post by muzaffarpur » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

mamon wrote: post #216

notJim wrote: post #67

The new rule is that H1B workers need to earn higher salaries relative to the distribution of salaries in their profession. The worker must make the 45th percentile wage, where previously it was 17th. Won't this primarily hurt people early in their career, or does it also take into account experience level?

I think this is by design. You don't want to issue visas to "people early in their career" - those jobs should go to Americans first. You only hire from abroad if there really is a shortage of specialists in some profession, and you want those professionals to prove their worth in their home country first, before allowing them to the US.

Umm no. Everyone but Indian/Chinese H1b holder, get their green card in 1-2 years.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#272

Post by shard972 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #74

I agree 100% with you. My view is even more extreme, I think we should allow anyone who passes a criminal background check to be able to get a work visa, with no quotas. But barring that pipe dream, this seems like a good interim step.

If we had that pipe dream there would not be a country left at the end of the day to argue policy over.

It's quite amazing that even 6 months after 100 year pandemic people still have wide eyed beliefs about open borders as if it's a net positive.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#273

Post by huntermeyer » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

belltaco wrote: post #234

chairmanwow1 wrote: post #189

Overall, I really support these changes. However, this piece really struck me as a big mistake: "Under the changes, an applicant must have a college degree in the specific field in which he or she is looking to work. A software developer, for example, wouldn’t be awarded an H-1B visa if that person has a degree in electrical engineering." Some of the best software engineers I know are graduate degree holders from neu…

This one is also a particularly terrible move: >“ Because those required wage increases take effect this week, existing H-1B holders looking to renew their visas might not qualify unless their employers raise their salaries accordingly.” Copying from my comment below, this is likely to backfire. Since remote work has become acceptable and they already know the ins and outs of the job, many of these folks losing their…

I think working remotely for a US-based company as a resident of another country is more nuanced than you seem to imply. It may require significant changes to their relationship, which in turn may be more expensive than just raising their salary.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#274

Post by runarberg » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #246

runarberg wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xenophobia is more expected, when the immigrant population is ghettoized, alienated, given fewer opportunities and stricter policing, and made to compete with the local population for limited jobs. A more reasonable policy would be to make sure the that doesn't happen. Say by abolishing racist policing, better urban planning, better labor laws, and partly socialized job market. EDIT: Changed wording, previously incor…

Xenophobia is never natural, it's comprehensible but there are a lot of folks able to resist falling into it as a scapegoat from bad circumstance. I agree with improving society to help less folks fall into it, but I don't believe in allowing any excuses for xenophobic views.

This is very true. It was bad wording on my part. Thank you for correcting it.

Edited the previous comment to reflect this.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#275

Post by tootie » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

dognotdog wrote: post #90

Is it only me, or does this sound pretty empty? Except for narrowing of the `specialty occupation` moniker, all the rest seem like things that are already part of the H1-B program?

I'm not anti-immigrant in any way, but I'm wondering if things like H1-B have just run their course. Why would I pay to essentially import a worker to the US instead of just hiring staff in another country? Currently, my teammates could be 5 blocks away or on another continent and it makes no difference.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#276

Post by ajsnigrutin » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC

nrmitchi wrote: post #109

TuringNYC wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing to do would be to treat them like local workers -- increased pay AND increased flexibility. This will help retain the best overseas workers in the US. Even better would be a salary auction where US companies get to auction (higher and higher salaries for the best overseas workers.) The highest auction rates would fill the quota first. Overseas workers win bigtime. Companies seeking talent also win. Loc…

The problem with this is that H1Bs are not just for software engineering jobs. Other professions that qualify are things like accountants, or health care workers. If it was a straight up "who pays the most", then the software industry (mostly FAANG) would end up with 80k H1Bs per year, and other industries would still not be able to hire for jobs they can't fill locally.

So what? If there is not enough workers, they'll have to raise wages. What's wrong with healthcare workers getting 80k? (in reality, they'd poach someone elses workers, they'd have to raise their wages, and so on, then slowly there would be more workers due to more people going into field due to high wages, and if not, then get a H1B worker for 80k+).

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#277

Post by tylerhou » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #122

jzymbaluk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is right. The answer that's best for the economy is to allow more immigration, not less (especially skilled immigration). This move will just make it more dificult for the average company to sponsor H1B workers

Serious question: wouldn’t that be leaving less jobs open for Americans? As an American myself, I want to see my fellow Americans getting good jobs over people from other countries.

> Serious question: wouldn’t that be leaving less jobs open for Americans?

Immigration has much less of an impact on employment than you might expect in some cases — because immigrants also consume goods and services.

One widely cited example is the Mariel boatlift, where more than a hundred thousand Cubans immigrated to Florida over a short period of time. Subsequent economic analyses found essentially no change in wages or employment for native workers. (There was one study by Borjas which did find a change in wages for a subsection of workers, but this was widely criticized for basically p-hacking — split a population into enough subsections and you'll eventually find one that had a decrease in wages.)

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#278

Post by zerr » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:12 PM UTC

908B64B197 wrote: post #25

This is a great move. The current H1B program made no sense at all. If I wanted to hire: A smart graduate from EPFL, Polytechnique or ETH Zurich who interned at CERN and has contributed to the Linux kernel for a software engineering job at a unicorn startup or A grad from a second tier "technical college" in India with a visa refusal rate of ~90% for a job doing manual UI testing and QA for a body shop my only path f…

So all the doors should open for the person with a rich family background, while the poor one should stay in poverty?

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#279

Post by hoka-one-one » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:14 PM UTC

hal9000-tng wrote: post #258

Cherian_Abraham wrote: post #117

“ Because those required wage increases take effect this week, existing H-1B holders looking to renew their visas might not qualify unless their employers raise their salaries accordingly.” This is really bad. Families are going to get told to leave. I’m surprised that there is no discussion on this thread about the impact to people who haven’t done anything wrong.

> This is really bad. Families are going to get told to leave. I’m surprised that there is no discussion on this thread about the impact to people who haven’t done anything wrong. It's not a moral issue (except for the big H-1B mills that are gaming the system.) But nothing has changed: these are not an offer of citizenship. They are temporary work visas with no guarantees: an opportunity to do temporary specialty wo…

The decision would be ok in most other countries, where the land is some ethnic group's birthright. America, however, is unique in that it's everyone's birthright. The only reason most educated people don't support totally open borders is because there's so much poverty outside the US, but H-1B holders are not poor.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#280

Post by mrep » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:14 PM UTC

tyre wrote: post #76

paxys wrote: post #34

While I'm in favor of the move, wages are just a band-aid fix. The core of the problem is that the premise of the H1B visa itself – extraordinary skill that cannot be found in the US – is complete bullshit. Everyone participating in the program (including the government) knows this, and yet they have to do the entire song and dance of years long approval processes, fake job listings, RFEs and whatnot. Fix the real pr…

I take it you've never tried to hire experienced software engineers. The supply is significantly below demand.

What are you paying and do you post that information on your job description? I am a software engineer with 5 years of experience in Chicago IL and am open to new opportunities. What would you offer me?