Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#271

Post by falcolas » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #232

falcolas wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a pandemic were the only potential cause of a child not going to school, you'd be right. But it's not. Between mental issues, behavioral issues, and health issues, there's many potential causes for a child to not go to school. Not to mention the first 5 years of a child's life and summers.

And there are usually ways you can exchange money for help with those things. Special schools and programs for those with different mental or behavioral issues (this one often doesn't even need extra money, if your school system is adequate). Temporary leave for extreme cases like hospitalization. Day care or babysitters or nannies. Think about those first 5 years of life and summers you bring up. Obviously there are…

Taking care of their child through health and hardship is their responsibility. They took up that responsibility when they had the child.

Sure, it sucks to be them when they're in a position where they're attempting to take care of a child while working - but that's not their co-workers problem. That's a consequence of their own choices.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#272

Post by sokoloff » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

wbronchart wrote: post #52

ll931110 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, people without children are told (or required) to pick up the workload left behind when the coworkers having children taking (multiple) weeks off. For once or twice that might be okay, but if became a chronic problem, no wonder they are not happy.

If others have to consistently work overtime to cover for others, wouldn't it make sense to hire more? It's going to take some time for things to get back to normal.

That depends on how profitable the company is (many companies are experiencing downturns in revenue right now) and whether that profitability is improved/protected by hiring more people or not.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#273

Post by ethanwillis » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #132

dtx1 wrote: post #43

I'd be happy to do some overtime to help people with children in my company. Even as a childless single, I chose a family friendly company because it aligns with my personal values.

That's very noble, but do you believe that your choice should be forced onto others?

Should we be forced to pay taxes?

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#274

Post by jdm2212 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #160

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

I don't fully agree with you. Back when I worked in retail or fast food, smokers could step out for a 5 minute smoke break every once in a while. As a non-smoker, I wasn't allowed to just sit there for 5 minutes. At the end of the day, we got paid the same, but smokers got 30 minutes off, courtesy of the non-smokers who picked up the slack. Likewise, parents are excused from work because they have children. I fully a…

Someone has to provide the goods and services you'll consume when you're old. Those people are today's kids, whose parents are doing you a big favor at considerable expense to themselves.

Raising children isn't like smoking, a hobby, a side hustle, or other miscellaneous personal obligations. It's more like military service and jury duty -- an essential service that some people perform to ensure that society as we know it can continue to exist. And one which employers can, should, and often do make special allowances for.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#275

Post by YarickR2 » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #120

pojzon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That not always help but for sure will backfire at you. Im writing next part as a parent of two. We have in team people who take multiple days off due to taking care of children, often not even counting it as taking a day off. Management doesnt care and expects people who do not “exploit” their privilages to do work for 2-3-4 people. Its also not the way to go, but any comment about that is a hard “stop being so self…

Dear boss, My team is really struggling with the challenges that have come along with this global pandemic. Everyone is doing their best given the situation, but we aren't able to deliver the same level of productivity on a consistent basis. Can we setup a call to discuss adjusting expectations and shifting workloads in order to keep everything running as smoothly as possible? Sincerely, pojzon There is an email temp…

Sure. Just provide us with level of pay cut comfortable to you with respect to your reduced commitment

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#276

Post by nicbou » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #263

nicbou wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the argument I made above. If they get paid 100% of their salary for 80% of the output, so should everyone else. I compared it to smokers taking smoke breaks while non-smokers aren't allowed to take random 5 minute breaks.

At a place where smokers can take random 5-minute breaks, I can practically guarantee that non-smokers can as well.

Smoke breaks are not really an issue for white collar workers, but I don't think it invalidates the relationship between the two situations.

I don't think this has to be explicitly stated.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#277

Post by luckylion » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

evan_ wrote: post #217

luckylion wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they are unhappy about their managers' decision to favor their colleagues. If you give a tax rebate to anyone who's last name starts with A, are the other people not allowed to be annoyed, given that they have to pay more taxes to make up for the rebate? "Why can't you just be happy for the A people?" feels weird. Just pay those not taking time off for the time they would've taken off. It's not a complicated conc…

If there are fewer people working the managers should be scheduling less work. In your “tax rebate” example you should be upset with whoever decided to issue rebates in that way, not the people who received the rebate.

> If there are fewer people working the managers should be scheduling less work.

I'll take Things That Will Never Happen for 500, Alex.

> In your “tax rebate” example you should be upset with whoever decided to issue rebates in that way, not the people who received the rebate.

Or you could point out that it's unjust to favor some people in that regard, which everyone would do, and the receivers of the tax break would report feeling a growing resentment over their privileged treatment. Because at the end of the day, the taxes have to be paid. If some are cutting their taxes, others must step up.

I get it, double incomes are great, paying for child care sucks, and reducing hours sucks too (because less income), so if coworkers could just pick up the slack without compensation, that'd be great. But that's essentially just asking the colleagues to finance the chosen lifestyle.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#278

Post by christinamltn » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #226

lrem wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have it crossed your mind that maybe these people had the time and means to raise the kids, until a global pandemic has broken the plan a, the commercial plan b, the social plan c and the plan d? Because at the time the schools closed, the after school care also closed, people were told to not leave their kids with friends and no matter what never ever let them any near grandparents? Or have you totally missed that p…

Extended families have been isolating together since the beginning; Never were families discourages from isolating together. Visiting with friends (groups under 10 people) while following safe interaction guidelines was also not discouraged. EDIT: This is from the point of view of someone in the US; international laws vary as pointed out by replies.

It most certainly was for quite a while where I am (Ontario, Canada). For months we were told to only be in close proximity to those we already lived with. IIRC it was 2 steps on the "start to relax recommendations" path before a group of 10 was permissible.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#279

Post by bradlys » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #230

CydeWeys wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In modern society it's basically required that both parents work full-time jobs. It's not the 50s anymore; you can't support an entire household with children on one income. So you can't have the expectation that one of the parents give up a large chunk of their salary just to have kids. If you do structure society in this way then you get rapidly declining birth rates and very bad long-term population demographic pr…

It’s not just the cost of childcare. Since divorce became acceptable, it became a huge liability for women to exit the workforce and permanently give up earning power to raise children. I’ve seen this first hand in my family and it’s really difficult.

> Since divorce became acceptable, it became a huge liability for women to exit the workforce and permanently give up earning power to raise children.

Where are these anecdotes from? Of the divorced men I know in California - they're on the hook for a lot of money. Their wives chose to not work (first few years to do childcare - remaining years because they didn't want to). The women didn't want to be in the relationship anymore and got a divorce. The men end up owing their spouses alimony for decades plus child support (regardless of where the kids spend the most time).

As a straight man, I've decided to not marry based on their horror stories alone. I see marrying someone who wants to be a SAHM as a huge financial liability not in just temporary loss of earning potential but in near permanent levels of loss due to potential divorce.

Re: Tech firms face growing resentment of parent employees during Covid-19

#280

Post by MacsHeadroom » Tue, Sep 08, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

loosescrews wrote: post #122

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

I am a middle-aged adult with no children who's worked at tech firms for the past couple decades. To be honest, the "resentment" of those without children have for "benefits" those with children get strikes me as extremely selfish, immature and displaying a total lack of empathy. This is time off specifically to take care of children, something now that has become exceedingly more difficult in Covid times. What's nex…

At least in the US, the pandemic has changed everyone's life created stress for everyone. These policies seem to indicate that non-parents don't have an additional burden worth recognizing. It is easy to see it this way too as most of the managers and executives at big tech companies are parents. For young non-parent tech workers, this may be the first time that they have to figure out how to feed themselves during t…

As a childless person who cooks fine, the hardest part of this pandemic has been the mental toll of the sudden loss of everything that gives my life meaning- nights out with friends, concerts, festivals, etc.

I don't have the fortune of getting a sense of meaning from being a parent.

Go ahead and tell me how the things I get meaning from pale in comparison to being a parent and how I just need to suck it up. Does that make this pandemic any less depressing for childfree people? No, it doesn't.