'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland • Hacker News Board

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#271

Post by nwallin » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #111

z9e wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is reason.com being authoritarian here? How is antifa intimidating and attacking political dissenters not closer to a truer authoritarian accusation? I’m not sure where the “antifa is not violent” gaslighting is stemming from, but there’s a tremendous amount of YouTube footage that anyone can objectively discern from what a violent group of people looks like. The violence is not just them, it’s also right wing ag…

The first problem is when people try to treat antifa as an organization rather than as a loose ideology that is supported by groups across a wide spectrum, and then tries to use that to assign guilt by correlation. E.g. the original antifa was set up by the KPD (pre-war German communist party), but many modern antifa groups use logos that incorporates symbols that were used by the SPD to explicitly attack the KPD and…

Names are important.

If you wanted to start a club, and you called this club the Ku Klux Klan, people would assume you were a bunch of racists, even if you insisted you totally weren't. Even if, in reality, you actually weren't.

"Antifa" is a bad name to choose if you don't want people to assume you're a bunch of communists, just like "Ku Klux Klan" is a bad name to choose if you don't want people to assume you're a bunch of racists.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#272

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #260

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assessment was thoughtful, reasonable - and hammered with downvotes. I'm sensing a pattern where it's the well-expressed concerns with authoritarianism that are getting dogpiled.

The culture war in the US has pretty much devolved into generic sports-teamism at this point, calling for blood and demanding cancellation of anyone who doesn't agree with a narrow set of viewpoints. This may seem like I'm pointing a finger in a particular direction with use of the term "cancellation", but it really applies to almost everyone civically involved in the US presently. It's become really boring and diffi…

I agree with all of that and even though one team is currently (way) more overt, this is an old arms-race dynamic. It subsists by one side always fueling the other.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#273

Post by kombucha111 » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

Fellshard wrote: post #3

This is vital to understand for anyone who thinks they know what's going on at Portland, and - on a broader scale - most current events. There is a massive polarization of who consumes which facts, and this is simply an encoding of that: a drip-feed of exactly what one group of people wish to see.

And you seem to be part of that honestly.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#274

Post by sneak » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #88

sneak wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mainstream news reporting on Portland (and other regional rioting) got to the point where they were bald-faced lying about peaceful protests standing in front of burning buildings. It’s a little bit cliche, but also true: to judge a protest by its most violent elements but to decline to do the same of the police is the language of the oppressor. Everyone I saw celebrating 100 days was celebrating 100 days of su…

Frankly I'm impressed things haven't descended into far worse than what has happened so far. Most of the demonstrators are showing an incredible level of restraint.

I agree.

I think the police are, too; I expected to have seen some Kent State-style attacks by now given how insanely violent and trigger-happy they've been. This is not to minimize the tremendous blunt-force and chemical injuries they've incurred in any way, but I'm still surprised the police haven't caused more of their usual style of shooting deaths.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#275

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

bananaface wrote: post #140

zaroth wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the content is the marketing then it ceases to be journalism. Yes, this is probably stating the obvious. In this case then, we’ve lost something important. What we got to replace it seems to me like it’s actively hostile to a peaceful republic. I’s like to think that just as much as part of our brain turns on for the click bait, another part equally yearns for a source of truth, or as close to it as our meager ego…

Almost all commercial journalism is marketing. Journalism as an industry doesn't exist to inform you, it exists to make money.

Journalism's duty (implied by the press' constitutional protections) is to hold the powerful accountable.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#276

Post by sneak » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

amadeuspagel wrote: post #266

sneak wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least one of the deaths mentioned in that URL... was shot by police. Recall also that these protests began because the police in the US have murdered thousands in the last few centuries. Anti-police-violence protests would have to sustain dozens of related deaths every single night for months to even approach the level of depravity exercised by police for years.

> At least one of the deaths mentioned in that URL... was shot by police. The URL clearly refutes the parent comment that the only damage done by the protestors are vehicles and buildings getting set on fire. > Recall also that these protests began because the police in the US have murdered thousands in the last few centuries. > Anti-police-violence protests would have to sustain dozens of related deaths every single…

> The URL clearly refutes the parent comment that the only damage done by the protestors are vehicles and buildings getting set on fire.

You seem to assert that the murders itemized in that URL were committed by protesters.

It's not reasonable to assume that any murders that happen at or near protests were caused by protestors and not opportunistic criminals that aren't invested in the protest one way or another, just as it's not reasonable to assume that police are justified in shooting anyone whose hands they can't see.

The violence imposed by police is documented, because police are in uniform uniform, and zero non-cops are wearing those uniforms. There is no plain way to distinguish between opportunistic-criminals-present-at-a-protest and protesters.

Indeed, during all of this, it has been documented that sometimes police have engaged in violence whilst wearing all black and not identified as police.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#277

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

jkhdigital wrote: post #21

ptero wrote: post #11

This is the environment in which the journalism originally flourished: obtaining and reporting information that is not readily accessible otherwise, often against the wishes of the powers on the ground; and frequently being in danger while obtaining it. I am not glorifying this setup, it is horrible; but the information it provides is very valuable. Unfortunately, nowadays the journalist working on such project will…

What’s weird is that the script is flipped here, if this article is to be believed: it is the alleged “underdog” that is attempting to suppress journalistic freedom (through intimidation) to control the news narrative.

> if this article is to be believed: it is the alleged “underdog” that is attempting to suppress journalistic freedom (through intimidation) to control the news narrative.

Consider the source. She has some history of standing against reform movements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Rommelmann##MeNeither

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#278

Post by themgt » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

sammorrowdrums wrote: post #262

abduhl wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to draw a parallel to Christianity in this way then we can focus on what the organization does post-crisis. A self identifying Christian who kills people in the name of Christianity is vocally condemned by other self identifying Christians and many would rush to say that they were mentally ill. If BLM wants to not be lumped in with extremists then supporters of Black Lives Matter need to vocally and unequ…

I'm pretty sure lots of BLM supporters condemned Xavier Johnson... It's true that some activists tolerate and accept violence within their cause but that is not universally held, and while issues with police violence do complicate things, I agree with you that violent acts deserve condemnation. The key problem you highlight with my analogy is not quite correct (although most if not all analogies have some flaws). The…

Here's a video of BLM/Antifa protestors in Portland 1 week ago celebrating after one of their security detail apparently murdered a right-wing protester in cold-blood:

> "I am not sad that a fucking fascist died tonight" crowd cheers

https://clips.twitch.tv/TiredFunnySmoothieTwitchRPG

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#279

Post by sammorrowdrums » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

abduhl wrote: post #267

sammorrowdrums wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure lots of BLM supporters condemned Xavier Johnson... It's true that some activists tolerate and accept violence within their cause but that is not universally held, and while issues with police violence do complicate things, I agree with you that violent acts deserve condemnation. The key problem you highlight with my analogy is not quite correct (although most if not all analogies have some flaws). The…

We are talking past each other. You are convinced your viewpoint is correct while I am convinced mine is correct. The reality is that we are engaging in an exercise of line drawing. You draw the line for "actions undertaken by an individual attributable to the group" at a different place than I do. I also doubt that your mind can be changed on where the line should be drawn, judging by your retreat to a "you must not…

Well, I can see where you were coming from. As you point out, it is frustratingly ambiguous that BLM the phrase and the organisation are the same acronym.

I'm certainly not sure everyone who has funded BLM the organisation fully agrees or understands the difference either!

Thanks for clarifying what you mean.

Re: 'You're Not Allowed to Film': The Fight to Control Who Reports from Portland

#280

Post by sammorrowdrums » Sun, Sep 06, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

themgt wrote: post #278

sammorrowdrums wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure lots of BLM supporters condemned Xavier Johnson... It's true that some activists tolerate and accept violence within their cause but that is not universally held, and while issues with police violence do complicate things, I agree with you that violent acts deserve condemnation. The key problem you highlight with my analogy is not quite correct (although most if not all analogies have some flaws). The…

Here's a video of BLM/Antifa protestors in Portland 1 week ago celebrating after one of their security detail apparently murdered a right-wing protester in cold-blood: > "I am not sad that a fucking fascist died tonight" crowd cheers https://clips.twitch.tv/TiredFunnySmoothieTwitchRPG

There is a scary level of support / apathy to violence. Don't get me wrong. I am never going to support violence and murder, and I too will judge those that do. I am simply seeking to avoid generalisation.

I'm not naïve to movements being co-opted. I have witnessed that first hand numerous times.