Earlier quoted context omitted.
I take a very neutral position to this. Enterprise software at the scale SAP is operating (mainly its core ERP) at a Fortune 500 enterprise level. This characteristic (needs at that level) are user-hostile, not the software. Imagine this situation: - You're a F500 pipe manufacturer and a sales person needs to enter an order for 100 pipes to be manufactured and sent to a customer in the US Now imagine you need to: - O…
I don't buy the "real world is complex deal with it" explanation. Banking (especially in US) is a total complexity nightmare. Yet you have Stripe.com who simplify it. Your PC operating system complexity and the International Network of computers is so complex you cannot figure it all with your brain alone. Yet you write your email everyday with it and your colleague in China get's it in seconds. Your supply chain is…
What's SAP?
271–280 of 622 posts
Re: What's SAP?
#272Re: What's SAP?
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The software is user-hostile, intentionally obscure This a million times. I don't know if good interfaces can not be built in SAP, or if it's very difficult to do, or if the developers of apps on SAP platform just don't care. It's a real headache to use and completely confusing. It's 2020 and one would hope software companies realize the value of a good, clear, effective user interface.
> It's 2020 and one would hope software companies realize the value of a good, clear, effective user interface. SAP is not the only one; ever tried the enterprise software from Oracle? Or the open source ERPs/CRMs? Painful. But everything has API's these days, so lot of departmental work is done on top. Small budgets so they have small, simple LoB apps made on top which are 'idiot proof'. These apps are very localize…
ERPNext is not open core like Odoo.
Disclaimer: I am the founder of ERPNext
Re: What's SAP?
#274SAPs magic is the integration: A company I worked for rolled out SAP for a Production and supply chain distributed across about a dozen countries in Europe and went from 3+ weeks order commitment time (Not lead time) to immediediate including sourcing from external suppliers, logistics Partners and Production facility allocation.
Re: What's SAP?
#275Anyway, we needed to integrate with SAP on occasion, partly because one of our biggest clients was in the middle of a HUGE SAP rollout, employing a small army of Arthur Andersen MBAs, etc.
So I went to the SAP technical education conference in Atlanta, to gather info and whatnot. I heard Hasso Platner brag from the stage in the keynote that complaints about SAP's complexity and expense were entirely overblown because "80% of our implementations now take less than 18 months, and come in under $100 million."
Y I K E S.
(Oh, and the company with the SAP rollout we were working with? Eventually, the combined cancer of SAP and AA billing destabilized them enough that agreed to be acquired by their biggest competitor. Yay SAP!)
Re: What's SAP?
#276SAP always is an interesting case. It gets close to zero love from HN, yet the platform has some interesting engineering. For example, they had their own language that abstracts and operates directly over a database. They had their own drag and drop UI builder, that compiles down to a HTML page or a desktop widget - which is again not an ordinary feat. They view code as data, as in even the UI is stored as a configur…
Re: What's SAP?
#277SAP implementation basically sunk Target's huge investment into operations in Canada https://www.canadianbusiness.com/the-last-days-of-target-can... Seems to me SAP is ripe for disruption, but it would be a very challenging throne to unseat.
Business is a wild world of so many ways to structure the org down from workflows to departments which is basically the only thing that differentiates a large majority of businesses these days.
Sure, you could enforce a single cookie cutter approach for everyone, but then, how is corp A any different B anymore when everything is identical besides the people itself, heck their costs should equalize as they should in theory have the same workflow optimizations and inefficiencies.
Re: What's SAP?
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
It brought the "swim lane" mentality to my outfit. There is a "process is king" mindset where people exist to run some report or the other with a completely impenetrable abbreviation and set of unmarked mandatory fields also with no intuitive signifcance. Grab the next item on the work list, do your thing, and mark it complete. If some project asks what's required on either end or how to move their need forward, that…
> with no intuitive signifcance This isn't a problem with a standardized process, this is a problem with leadership not explaining to those doing the work how they fit into the whole and why their actions are important. "Process driven" does not have to mean rote, mindless, automaton-like action. It should be more about thoughtful action conscious of how those actions have downstream effects rather than intuitive "do…
Re: What's SAP?
#279SAP implementation basically sunk Target's huge investment into operations in Canada https://www.canadianbusiness.com/the-last-days-of-target-can... Seems to me SAP is ripe for disruption, but it would be a very challenging throne to unseat.
https://www.cio.com/article/2429865/enterprise-resource-plan...
Re: What's SAP?
#280I teach enterprise systems at a university, with emphasis on SAP. It's hideous. Hideous. My students complain it is unusable (agree), doesn't make sense (agree), that they can't see the point (agree). When you look at the underlying database 'schema' (inverted commas deliberate) you'll find it's a massive, denormalised mess. Much of what SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software. Reports, for…
This is a common misunderstanding. Many people miss the underlying philosophy of SAP software. The reason SAP encourages businesses to adopt SAP's way of doing things is that they did research into the optimal way of doing the common business processes that don't differentiate you from your competitors. A common industry lingo to encompass that was Business Process Reengineering. That's why implementations of SAP in the 1990s were done by Big 4 firms to rework the processes of business actions alongside the installation of the software itself. In other words, kill 2 birds with one stone: if we're already spending millions to install ERP software, let's also modernize our business processes into "best practices" because those are already the likely default configuration in SAP.
E.g. there's an optimal way to manage Purchase Orders and SAP encoded that sequence of actions into SAP's data model and GUI data entry flow. You're not going to beat your competitors by insisting that your snowflake way of handling your Purchase Orders is special and "SAP should conform to it". PO's are not your "secret sauce" to dominate the market.
An analogy might be in carpentry where the optimal process is: Measure twice and cut once. -- therefore the standard SAP data entry screen might have 2 text boxes "measurement #1" and "measurement #2"
But another custom carpentry/woodworking shop says SAP is inflexible because they want to customize SAP's system so it's: Measure once and sometimes have to cut twice because of occasional measurement error. -- and SAP's response to that is "you're doing it wrong" -- and SAP's research is often correct -- so don't spend consulting hours to customize SAP into doing the suboptimal thing. Nevertheless, the oddball carpentry shop insists they're "special" so they want the UI text boxes to be customized to be "cut #1" and "cut #2 redo". Well, say hello to expensive consulting billing hours and painful upgrades.
The bottom line is to use SAP for what it's good at: the boring back office enterprise stuff that will not differentiate you from the competition.
> It doesn't care about your USP.
But asking SAP software to "care about your Unique Selling Proposition" is out of scope for the software's intended use. For example, Microsoft and Google use SAP internally even though SAP's ERP capabilities are out-of-scope for Microsoft managing an army of programmers to develop the next Windows operating system or Office suite. Same for SAP not being suitable for Google to run the AdWords system. And yet, Microsoft and Google bought expensive SAP licenses to use what SAP is good for: corporate enterprise financial systems.