Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#271

Post by mthoms » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

bonestamp2 wrote: post #238

mrtksn wrote: post #57

Apple has a list for that: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 These are end to end: Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS 11 or later) Screen Time Siri information Wi-Fi passwords The messages also end to end but the backup contains the private key. The moral of…

> if you want real protection, do local backups Yes, this is unfortunately true and unfortunately complicated compared to iCloud backups. I backup locally to my mac (encrypted), then I have my mac do time machine backups to my Synology NAS (encrypted) and then I have my NAS backup to BackBlaze (encrypted). I do that to satisfy the two pronged backup strategy: local (fast) and remote (slow, but useful in catastrophic…

I might be mistaken but I thought Backblaze doesn't backup external drives?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#272

Post by 77pt77 » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #217

justapassenger wrote: post #191

Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, about how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. While iPhone itself is pretty secure as a device phone (and Apple makes sure to remind you about that in each ad, public speaking, attacks on competitors, etc), as an ecosystem it's not secure. And it's like that on purpose - there's no…

>Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, aboyt how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, Probably not. The keyboards on their laptops are barely functional but it doesn't stop people from saying how great they are.

I'm always reminded of The Onion's prophetic sketches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#273

Post by parliament32 » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

The ecosystem is incredibly insecure, despite what Apple's marketing department wants you to think. More than anything I'm surprised at how often their advertising talking points are parroted in tech circles, like here on HN.. in any thread hinting at Google vs Apple you're bound to find a long comment chain about how Apple is "secure" and "privacy oriented" and "cares about their users". Not that Google is any better, but it makes me wonder whether it's just astroturfing or if their marketing is actually working.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#274

Post by fortran77 » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

Apple has done a great job convincing otherwise "progressive" people that one of the world's richest companies is the underdog who's fighting for you!

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#275

Post by drummer » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

EGreg wrote: post #39

5ersi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you think it was end-to-end encrypted? Did you never use icloud.com where you can simply access all your icloud data with a usernam+password?

Well, you just have to “trust” the server to not serve a website that will phone home your password. Apple pinky swears they won’t do that, and all your browser extensions running all the time do, too. As Mark Zuckerberg once opined: “They ‘trust’ me. Those dumbfucks.” https://www.businessinsider.com/embarrassing-and-damaging-zu... And it’s not just mere words, here is he actually set up a honeypot site to get people…

I think the truth of the dumbfucks argument is too painful for some people especially seeing how things are the same given recent developments. As an engineer I would be deeply ashamed if I were still working for Facebook.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#276

Post by jedieaston » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #179

nemothekid wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you lose your device and buy a new one and restore your device with a back up, all your messages will be returned. There’s no way to accomplish this without having the private key in the backup. EDIT: When I say there is no way to accomplish this, I’m talking specifically about the process that exists today where the user doesn’t have to remember a password other than their iCloud password (which today, can also b…

I would think that you could, however, encrypt that private key with a user-controlled password. (Granted, this should be optional and have big red warnings about being unable to recover without the password)

That’s exactly what they do for iCloud Keychain and Health data right now, so I don’t understand why they don’t do it for messages by default.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#277

Post by ghaff » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

fma wrote: post #268

ghaff wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing that’s a bit of a problem as I discovered is it doesn’t seem as if there’s any documented way (and I’m wary of undocumented workarounds) to have this backup anywhere but your boot drive. Especially with several OS X devices this can be a bit of a problem if you have an older undersized SSD. I was getting critically low on space and it turned out a huge amount was these backups.

There's a workaround to point the local folder to anywhere via a symbolic link (in my case, a NAS). https://reincubate.com/support/how-to/change-itunes-backup-l...

I know there are workarounds. I’d just prefer not to do something that Apple doesn’t support in this instance.

I fixed the problem for now. I have some older devices I don’t care about the backups for any longer.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#278

Post by djannzjkzxn » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

GeekyBear wrote: post #207

>there's no good and easy option to backup your phone other than iCloud. Turn off iCloud and do local encrypted backups to your PC or Mac. This works over your wifi network (if you prefer wireless charging at home) or via a cable connection.

What is this backup encrypted with? If I lose my phone, what do I need to restore it to a new phone?

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#279

Post by kohtatsu » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #231

GeekyBear wrote: post #207

>there's no good and easy option to backup your phone other than iCloud. Turn off iCloud and do local encrypted backups to your PC or Mac. This works over your wifi network (if you prefer wireless charging at home) or via a cable connection.

Not a solution for Linux users. There are ways to sync to Linux but I’ve had plenty of issues with it.

You don't need iTunes, you can use idevicebackup2 from https://www.libimobiledevice.org/

It's a command line suite for Mac, Linux, and Windows that interfaces with your iPhone through it's native protocols, including for encrypted local backups.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#280

Post by shawnz » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

djannzjkzxn wrote: post #278

GeekyBear wrote: post #207

>there's no good and easy option to backup your phone other than iCloud. Turn off iCloud and do local encrypted backups to your PC or Mac. This works over your wifi network (if you prefer wireless charging at home) or via a cable connection.

What is this backup encrypted with? If I lose my phone, what do I need to restore it to a new phone?

It's encrypted with a password you type on the computer, but is stored on the phone. Annoyingly, if you lose the password, the only way to change it (even just for future backups) is resetting all settings on the phone.