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For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

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Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#271

Post by quacked »

iso1210 wrote: post #264
quacked wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your choice unfortunately affects the greater world. Which would you rather have- a locally-produced society that's expensive to live in, or a Walmart society that's convenient to live in?

It makes sense for the local optimisation of the individual to go for the walmart society - after all their single choice won't make a difference to anything other than their bottom line It makes sense for people as a whole to optimise as a society and have the locally produced society That's where we can choose an economic system that ensures that we optimise in general rather than individually, so we avoid the pris…

I've come to the same conclusion. Never before in history have people truly optimize while thinking of themselves as a whole- the second something more convenient was offered, they took it immediately. I think that we're at a place in human history where we desperately need every person to step back from convenience in order to optimize for society.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#272

Post by kapuasuite »

deogeo wrote: post #233
WaylonKenning wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be a business opportunity for another tractor manufacturer. You're not forced to buy a John Deere. Boutique tractors, hand repairable, simple parts. If people are hoarding onto 40 year old tractors, then that's a market signal that people want those type of tractors.

Yes, lets keep hoping the Market will solve everything, and that somehow, the trend of consolidation will magically reverse itself on its own, despite how ever fewer companies control each market. Wouldn't want to realize people have more power than just what they buy.

Why not loosen copyrights and other restrictions that make third party services impossible or impractical?

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#273

Post by mythrwy »

davchana wrote: post #81
cpach wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does farmers in other countries somehow enjoy a plethora of tractor manufacturers to choose from?

Punjab state of India is pretty much Agriculture based, & have options of Ford, FarmTrac tractors as well as John Deere, Scot, this year models as well as from 1970s; along with local Indian Brands like Sonalika, Preet, Mahindra being equally good or better.

Mahindra tractors are based on the old International Harvester models I think. They sell them in the US also.

They look pretty cool, simple and repairable, but I don't know if they make ones the size of commercial John Deere tractors. All the Mahnindra tractors I've looked at were small.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#274

Post by mbesto »

Vesuvium wrote: post #86
scarmig wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. It clearly is good for business, even if it's bad for customers and society at large. Pretending it's bad for business just encourages complacency because it suggests that the natural discipline of the market will drive the milkers out of business and encourage good business practices. But that doesn't happen, and if we w…

These companies are losing customers. That is never good for business. Eventually, someone will take the matter into his own hand and start making 80s-like tractors, so these companies will lose even more customers. They could do the same, but at this point they lost the trust of their customers, so it will be very hard to gain them back.

> These companies are losing customers.

Are they? John Deere has increased its revenue from $28B to $39B in the last 4 years....

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#275

Post by dredmorbius »

cpach wrote: post #236
apt-get wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why 75% of France's farmers belong to an agricultural cooperative?

Are those profitable though? Farming is heavily subsidized by the EU.

Farming is heavily subsidised throughout the industrialised world.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#276

Post by danem »

ydb wrote: post #265
earlINmeyerkeg wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The greatest innovation in the history of mankind was a land consolidation. It took what 100 peasants all making enough food for subsistence living to 100 peasants be able to make enough food for thousands of people. It's not sad, it's progress.

It looks like the neoliberal cult of "progress" has its acolytes on Hacker News, but that really shouldn't surprise. What is sad, though, is the distinct lack of empathy that this ideology instills in its adherents. Leaving people behind is not a sign of progress; instead, it's a sign of an ill society.

I'll take being able to feed the entire world's population more affordably than ever over the jobs of a small group of people in a rich country. This isn't to say the government should play no role in cushioning those affected by progress, but the progress has been undeniably good.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#277

Post by mustacheemperor »

iso1210 wrote: post #264
quacked wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your choice unfortunately affects the greater world. Which would you rather have- a locally-produced society that's expensive to live in, or a Walmart society that's convenient to live in?

It makes sense for the local optimisation of the individual to go for the walmart society - after all their single choice won't make a difference to anything other than their bottom line It makes sense for people as a whole to optimise as a society and have the locally produced society That's where we can choose an economic system that ensures that we optimise in general rather than individually, so we avoid the pris…

As far as the individual goes, I think the locally optimal decision differs if you care about the difference in quality of taste from the non Walmart milk, or in the quality of life in the cattle that produced it.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#278

Post by hinkley »

unapologetic wrote: post #268
NicoJuicy wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tractor as a service will only bite them back. Look at how popular 40-year old tractors are :) It's never been a better time to create a good old repairable machine.

They all want to get to the point of being Tesla. Hiding features only in software, pushing out updates, and trying to bake in a living (recurring revenue) model. It's a problem for a lot of reasons. First off it's the complete death of ownership. I can't fix things. At some point they will probably just lock stuff back down if I want to sell, assuming I can even sell without them getting a cut. Second, repairability…

Stated another way, every company has discovered 'rent-seeking' in a relatively short period of time and they all think it's neat.

Consumers haven't pushed back enough to stop this from happening.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#279

Post by _trampeltier »

pleasantpeasant wrote: post #29

Right to repair laws need to be put in place. American corporations are trying to reach a point where you don't own products. You are merely long-term renting or leasing products from them. And any alterations or repairs will come with a heavy price. It's already hard enough to repair your own vehicle without taking it to a dealership. How long until small car shops can't even fix any cars if they don't have the tool…

The right to repair is one thing, the other thing is, from where will you get this this special print card, the special chip, the special sensor, if they use it like this just for ex. just one year in production. So after 10 years, there are 10 different version, different protocols etc. You still will throw away sooner or later the whole tractor (or whatever) because you can't find an special electronic part.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#280

Post by Waterluvian »

LinuxBender wrote: post #248
pm90 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make an interesting point. I think ideally what we want is: * easy automation for those that need it; if corporations want to driverless tractors doing all their farming, so be it. They're responding to a market that is demanding a lot of cheap food. * occupation as a choice; the productivity gains from automation shouldn't all just pile on to the people who made the investment; but it could be used to provide ne…

I don't have any references for this, just the farmers I have spoken to, so take this with a grain of salt. The massive mono-crop farming apparently have the draw-back of not following some of the recycling processes that old school, small farm farmers did to keep the soil rich and diverse in nutrients. i.e. rotating out crops, bringing in animals to eat old crops, flowers, provide diverse waste product as fertilizer…

I've heard similar things. I don't think mechanization is at fault. I'd bet it's more the capitalism part forcing min maxing.
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