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For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

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Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#261

Post by ahoy »

wolco wrote: post #196
ahoy wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Losing your job to automation is bad for your livelihood. It has been since we started automating things.

Is it bad for your children's livelihood? You are sending a message on a computer made by a machine. Parts are so small it would be impossible to do by hand which created a number of other jobs to support this new ability.

To the extent that my children depend on me to eat, yes, its bad for their livelihood.

I'm saying that technology is _bad_. I'm saying that losing your job is bad, and if your boss replacing you with a machine is what causes that you're right to be upset.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#262

Post by zelon88 »

When I worked in manufacturing with heavy machinery I was taught that the best type of machine is one that functions regardless of it's condition. If you ever walk around any old tractor shows you can see that style of engineering throughout all those old pieces of equipment.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#264

Post by iso1210 »

quacked wrote: post #220
earlINmeyerkeg wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are dairy co-ops where I live that do this sort of thing. That's why they're so huge. However the small ma and pop ones that have local well known businesses charge an arm and a leg for half a gallon of milk. Yeah sorry, I'll pay half that cost for a gallon at walmart, thanks.

Your choice unfortunately affects the greater world. Which would you rather have- a locally-produced society that's expensive to live in, or a Walmart society that's convenient to live in?

It makes sense for the local optimisation of the individual to go for the walmart society - after all their single choice won't make a difference to anything other than their bottom line

It makes sense for people as a whole to optimise as a society and have the locally produced society

That's where we can choose an economic system that ensures that we optimise in general rather than individually, so we avoid the prisoner's dilemma type problems.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#265

Post by ydb »

earlINmeyerkeg wrote: post #128
macinjosh wrote: post #98

My grandfather, rest his soul, was a 3rd generation rancher and farmer. He bought 2 John Deere tractors in the '80s and used them for 35 years. They are still being used to this day on the ranch. Growing up, I visited the ranch regularly. Farming and ranching is very hard on equipment so the tractors often needed repair. My father and grandfather could seemingly fix anything on the tractor without even needing to go…

The greatest innovation in the history of mankind was a land consolidation. It took what 100 peasants all making enough food for subsistence living to 100 peasants be able to make enough food for thousands of people. It's not sad, it's progress.

It looks like the neoliberal cult of "progress" has its acolytes on Hacker News, but that really shouldn't surprise.

What is sad, though, is the distinct lack of empathy that this ideology instills in its adherents. Leaving people behind is not a sign of progress; instead, it's a sign of an ill society.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#266

Post by ajmurmann »

Waterluvian wrote: post #139
macinjosh wrote: post #98

My grandfather, rest his soul, was a 3rd generation rancher and farmer. He bought 2 John Deere tractors in the '80s and used them for 35 years. They are still being used to this day on the ranch. Growing up, I visited the ranch regularly. Farming and ranching is very hard on equipment so the tractors often needed repair. My father and grandfather could seemingly fix anything on the tractor without even needing to go…

Thanks for sharing this about your grandfather. > The world changes and sometimes it sucks but that is how progress is made. This touches on something I think a lot about. Massive driverless farms, in my mind's eye, looks like one puzzle piece towards the utopia of the future. But you do lose the human aspect. It reminds me of Star Trek where Picard is working with his hands on a vineyard. Capitalism is abolished so…

I think the transition from capitalism to Star Trek Utopia is where basic income guarantee can be very helpful

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#267

Post by pharke »

beardedetim wrote: post #174
sl1ck731 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could be said for robots displacing humans in factories or trucks or anywhere else. That doesn't make it less sad for people's whose livelihoods depend on those positions just because its technological progress.

> doesn't make it less sad for people's who livelihoods depend on those positions I totally agree. Id say, however, that we should be making it so those people, and we all, are okay without a job/with our jobs being automated away, not be Luddites about it.

The unfortunate thing is that people have been predicting that increased automation should lead to lower working hours and higher pay since 1930 when John Maynard Keynes predicted that we'd all be working 15 hour weeks. It's nice to just assume that we'll all benefit from more automation and more efficient processes but unless we all act to ensure that it is so it is not likely to happen.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#268

Post by unapologetic »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #251
macinjosh wrote: post #98

My grandfather, rest his soul, was a 3rd generation rancher and farmer. He bought 2 John Deere tractors in the '80s and used them for 35 years. They are still being used to this day on the ranch. Growing up, I visited the ranch regularly. Farming and ranching is very hard on equipment so the tractors often needed repair. My father and grandfather could seemingly fix anything on the tractor without even needing to go…

Tractor as a service will only bite them back. Look at how popular 40-year old tractors are :) It's never been a better time to create a good old repairable machine.

They all want to get to the point of being Tesla. Hiding features only in software, pushing out updates, and trying to bake in a living (recurring revenue) model.

It's a problem for a lot of reasons. First off it's the complete death of ownership. I can't fix things. At some point they will probably just lock stuff back down if I want to sell, assuming I can even sell without them getting a cut.

Second, repairability takes a nosedive. It's no longer a tough but simple piece of machinery that I can maintain indefinitely with some mostly fairly easy to teach skills. I'm an amateur, but I know enough about how cars work that I'm willing to try and fix most issues, up to the point of needing specialized tooling. Instead it's a world of more expensive parts, DRM, and things that just won't work without a dealer authorized repair.

Then we get to the part where I come off an old fuddy duddy. I don't want a car where someone can push safety critical changes the way we push shitty software updates now. I don't trust them to get it right. I don't want to be sold a car that tries to kill me after a mandatory software update. It's not needed, and it's a bad idea.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#269

Post by jnwatson »

cmcd wrote: post #188
wolco wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the fear around robots? Machines have been displacing human labour for the last 100 years.

During the industrial revolution hard labor jobs transitioned to maintenance work for the machines. The problem is as we improve at automation the need for non-technical maintenance decreases. A small team of engineers can displace thousands or tens of thousands of workers without creating any new opportunities.

So has Microsoft Excel. We’ve already eliminated millions of desk jobs with IT. What is particularly special about factory jobs?
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