I live in Spain but was born in Russia, I moved 3 years ago because I hate current russian government and still I hope russian and chinese companies and engineers will boycott Gitlab in response. Such offensive nationalism should not be forgiven.
Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia
271–280 of 584 posts
Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia
#272This is where it is important to get back to first principles, and making distinctions based on nationality is less helpful than making distinctions based on rules-oriented-organisations vs. people-oriented organisations. The primary distinguishing characteristic which we need to pay attention to is rule-of-law and the power-predominance of rules-oriented-organizations across the political and economic system. This is something which should in principle be apolitical and possible to evaluate empirically.
Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Are you in USA? No, Germany, which also faces massive problems with Chinese buy-outs and industrial spionage. > Should other countries refuse to employ USA citizens because of actions of the government - things like pulling out of Syria to enable the Turkish murder of the Kurds to continue. I would wish so, but I'm realistic enough to know no government wants to put themselves into the spotlight of Trump's Twitter…
I think Turks have the right to defend their borders
Turks and PKK have this issue for a long time. Having precautions on the other side of Turkish border is not an one-nighter.
Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia
#274Well, the answer to that is simple. #boycottgitlab I am working at a European company where the amount of Russian engineers is constantly increasing (similar thing happens in many of the bigger companies nearby). And they prove to be quite ok. So since today I will speak strongly against use of Gitlab in my workplace should such a talk begin.
I think you are confusing them having something against Russia(gov) with Russians(people). They also clearly state that current employees will not be affected. Reading the motivation behind it and the possible dangers it would pose to their clients. I think it's very reasonable not to continue having sensitive data be available in Rus & Chi. What would you do in this case?
I think, that it’s reasonable not to use servers located in certain countries and not to use (closed-source) software made by some bigger companies there. I myself would not use much of the software or services from the countries mentioned. Because I know who might well be getting access to my data and what those people’s approximate values are.
But not hiring devs that are maybe trying to get away from those places? As a dev and an immigrant myself I could not just stay silent about that.
Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia
#275This is just ridiculous. It is truly unfair to discriminate people based on the country of their birth. It's not like they had a choice. Am I the only one who thinks that both China and Russia have spies who are not native Chinese or Russians? And are people really naive to believe that a stupid decision like this would prevent China or Russia from trying to obtain the information they need (if they really want it)
[deleted]
Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia
#276I am Chinese living in China. Nationalism is on the rise lately in China, not just for domestic reasons, but also as an reaction to nationalistic moves from "the West" like this one. It's a recurring theme, not just in governmental propaganda, but also in daily conversations, that "the West" would talk about fairness and justice then commit blatant discrimination and double standards. As a founder of a tech company b…
Those people are completely brainwashed https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/issues/5555#not...
Care to elaborate, comrade major?
Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia
#277Wow! racism!
Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia
#278Well, the answer to that is simple. #boycottgitlab I am working at a European company where the amount of Russian engineers is constantly increasing (similar thing happens in many of the bigger companies nearby). And they prove to be quite ok. So since today I will speak strongly against use of Gitlab in my workplace should such a talk begin.
What? For me this is a big reason on why I want to use Gitlab. I am european and I think you're being pretty stupid. You celebrate that the company you work for hire people in Russia rather from where you live. You seem to fail to realize that if all companies in your country would do that you would soon find yourself out of a job since there is always some place cheaper. No one is saying russians aren't knowledgeabl…
Maybe you should read more about "protectionism", "nationalism" and "discrimination" - not just definitions, but how they affect economic.
Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia
#279It's immoral to discriminate on the basis of fear, prejudice, and rumor. One client can demand that Gitlab get rid of Chinese and Russian nationals today. Tomorrow, a different client can make similar demands - aimed at the nationals of different countries. This makes no sense whatsoever, and will blow out of control quickly. Sanction programs are the established legal frameworks for such things: https://www.treasury…
Companies don't make decisions based on morality. This is a question of liability. Gitlab's liability, based on whatever internal metrics being measured, would be significantly higher than the potential economic rewards of having employees in sensitive positions in these two countries--at the moment. Also, on a side note, morality != legality. They're two different things. What is moral isn't necessarily illegal, and…
That was roughly the reading of this issue that I assumed initially too, but in fact the liability/reward situation is reversed here, I think.
GitLab are considering making this change in order to satisfy the requirements of a potential customer[0] - i.e. the reward is for adding the restriction.
And in turn, making the change itself could increase liability[1] since it doesn't seem to be based on a legal request or existing defensible GitLab policy.
[0] - https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/issues/5555#not...
[1] - https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/issues/5555#not...
The thread reads like a case of the compliance arm of the business trying to keep the ship steady and non-discriminatory (which is in-line with GitLab's stated goals, the intent of the law, and likely in-line with their prospects as a long-term global employer), while a sales part of the organization tries to close a deal.
Putting in additional engineering effort to allow the customer to specify their own policy on SRE/support access to data -- which they'd be responsible for defending if there were any questions -- seems like it might be a way forward. Whether the sales team and customer would wait for that is another question.
It's remarkable and very progressive to see this discussion in the open; it's also interesting to note how many side-discussions and different opinions emerge in the comments and in discussion here, while the core communication continues between a small number of participants in the merge request.
Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> If I was a Chinese or a Russian engineer working for Gitlab, I'd consider quitting right now regardless of how this discussion ends. This is partially the goal of such moves and will accelerate the rise of discrimination. Thus, one should not quit despite the situation.
So you'd suggest staying and fighting against this inside the company? If they truly love the company and it deserves this, you might be right. edit: what bothers me is that at least by some senior staff members these employees are already considered second-class citizens as otherwise this initiative wouldn't even be discussed, and I wonder how comfortable it will be to continue working with these people now.
by staying you fight it already, better be passive - not being insane is already a lot