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Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

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Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#271
post #234
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, price of gas is 2.5x higher in Norway than somewhere like the USA. If you're in the USA and fill your tank once a week, you probably spend ~$2000/yr in gas. And that's how much you'd save in gas if you went electric. In areas with higher fuel prices, the incentive is proportionally larger. (That's ignoring the cost of paying your electric bill, not sure if that changes the math much..)

> (That's ignoring the cost of paying your electric bill, not sure if that changes the math much..) If we ignore the cost of gas, it'll also change the math... Needless to say, need to include all costs for a fair comparison. A few years ago when my wife had a Fiat 500e and I was commuting on a 1988 Honda CRX (~40 mpg). The energy cost was higher for the Fiat than the Honda at the time. (Electricity is very expensive…

PGE EV-A rate plan has been $0.13/kWh. Fiat 500e gets about 4 mi/kWh, so about $0.0325 per mile. Assuming gas price over that period averaged $2.50, then at 40mpg gas cost $0.0625 per mile. Which looks like twice as much, not nearly the same.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#272
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the Tesla Model 3 aesthetically beautiful, and other cars rather grotesque in comparison. It’s extremely forward thinking and intelligent design, allowing for the user experience to constantly improve and be enhanced with the regular software updates to come down. There are now dozens of features in my car which didn’t even exist when I bought it. UI refinements actually improve my driving experience one month…

This is one of those things that you can't trust a customer to answer truthfully. You say you like it, but when Ford or similar does it, it's annoying. It's not that Tesla quality is good either. It's one of those things that we tell ourselves we like. I believe there isn't a correct answer, but rather our psychology decides what we like rather than true performance

I understand what you’re saying. Personal bias is hard to self-monitor.

But on many objective measures Tesla’s touchscreen is worlds apart from any of car touchscreen. It is iPad-like responsiveness as far as touch recognition and refresh rate.

I always said I would never want a GPS/Nav system in a car, because what would be the point?! Low quality maps, no decent POI, no decent user input for querying POI, bad routing, no pinch-to-zoom in a complicated intersection, slow to load, etc.

My wife’s Mercedes has Nav and we used it exactly once.

By contrast I always use Nav in the Tesla because I can map to Work or Home in two taps in 1 second, boom, the map routes and zooms to show the overview and I have a traffic aware route with an accurate ETA.

The live traffic lets me see if traffic is slowing ahead on the highway. Often times I will slow down to the speed limit when approaching a red zone ahead on the highway. Someone behind will swerve around me and accelerate hard just to come to a screeching halt around the bend. Craziness.

I think “build quality” and “materials quality” is way more subjective and harder to quantify. But the screen interface is on a different level.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#273
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prius are doing just fine, so are Honda hybrids, especially plug-ins

Prius sales have dropped off a cliff. Sales are down six years in a row. Peak sales were 236,000 in 2012, and just 87,000 last year. Part of that is that there's a lot more hybrid competition for the Prius than there used to be.

Toyota has sold over 10 million hybrid vehicles in the last 20 years:

https://global.toyota/en/detail/14940871

But I bet they're crying all the way to the bank.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#274
post #263

As soon as the tax situation normalizes this will drop back down again. There is simply a limited time for people to act and get the full benefit of buying an electric vehicle. This situation happens over and over again in different places in the world whenever a particular tax advantage is about to end.

That was also expected in the US but sales are up as the incentives have phased out. (BEVs in general, not just Tesla)

Well, the price has been dropping as well. I just bought a Tesla for about 55k that was 72k a couple years ago. Even with less of a tax break it's still a much better value.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yea, so the cost of electricity is 25c/kWh (NYC) Is that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?

That's the same rate from ConEd. It's actually more like like 27c or 28c. 9c for electricity, 13c or more for delivery and rest taxes. I paid $370 for like 1350kwh last July, I switched to solar last August and that will pay itself in about 5 years. There are TOU rates, but there are from 8am to midnight.

Charging overnight is how to take advantage of TOU rates. Fortunately electric cars support charging schedules.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#276
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The French electric grid is predominantly nuclear, so whatever the transmission losses, the EV will be near zero CO2 output.

Nuclear is how you spell winning in French. Clean green limitless power.

Until it fails and the surrounding environment and people are destroyed for generations.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#277
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things that you can't trust a customer to answer truthfully. You say you like it, but when Ford or similar does it, it's annoying. It's not that Tesla quality is good either. It's one of those things that we tell ourselves we like. I believe there isn't a correct answer, but rather our psychology decides what we like rather than true performance

I understand what you’re saying. Personal bias is hard to self-monitor. But on many objective measures Tesla’s touchscreen is worlds apart from any of car touchscreen. It is iPad-like responsiveness as far as touch recognition and refresh rate. I always said I would never want a GPS/Nav system in a car, because what would be the point?! Low quality maps, no decent POI, no decent user input for querying POI, bad routi…

> I think “build quality” and “materials quality” is way more subjective and harder to quantify. But the screen interface is on a different level.

Not really. The robustness of the screens in Teslas is particularly poor:

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows...

Tesla didn't go with automotive grade screens which is why the screen failure rate is so high.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#278
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the Tesla Model 3 aesthetically beautiful, and other cars rather grotesque in comparison. It’s extremely forward thinking and intelligent design, allowing for the user experience to constantly improve and be enhanced with the regular software updates to come down. There are now dozens of features in my car which didn’t even exist when I bought it. UI refinements actually improve my driving experience one month…

Counterpoint, as a Model 3 owner. The lack of tactile controls for things like climate controls, sound system, etc., is very frustrating. I find myself having to mess around with the touchscreen much more than I'd like while driving. You get used to the central screen in lieu of a traditional dashboard pretty quickly, but I'd prefer more traditional dashboard functions to be aligned to display(s) on the driver's side…

I remember the first I drove my Model 3 at night. I couldn’t figure out why the experience felt almost surreal.

The I realized, not having that glowing screen behind the wheel (which also means the wheel itself is smaller than a typical wheel) grants you a much better view of the road and noticeably better night vision.

I’ve never had an app where I can grant access to the car to someone from my phone, and even let them drive. I’ve used it a couple times and it’s been very helpful. I routinely unlock the car from my phone well out of Bluetooth range to let someone in to grab something, or to let my son get in ahead of a trip so he can play the arcade. We have an Xbox controller connected so he can play from the backseat.

Remote climate control is used extensively during the winter and summer to get the cabin ready for humans. Remotely controlling the seat heaters even, my wife particularly appreciates that.

A lot of this is made possible, or made significantly easier, because there are no physical buttons/knobs/switches which would need to maintain state with the software being remotely controlled. I know some types of physical buttons can be “soft-buttons” where the state can be changed remotely, but having it all on screen makes these features a lot less expensive, and easy to add in a software update instead of needing it all planned from the beginning.

The screen most of all avoids lock-in and future proofs the car for all the cool features they’ve been adding and will continue to add. There is nothing else on the market like it.

So bottom line, I’m not saying that somethings are not minutely more difficult, like adjusting cabin temp or turning on the rear seat heaters. But that only by committing fully the vision is truly realized. And the vision is absolutely grand.

Lastly, to your example with the sound system. Of course we have volume and skip-track controls on the wheel. The more advanced input and track selection is touch. Personally I would find it mind-numbing to try to do that with physical buttons. I mean, they didn’t even have Spötify last month and now they do, so I order to have buttons for inputs, it would need to be a scroll thingy highlighting a selection in a screen, or a push-to-cycle-through thingy which frankly those are both awful and not less distracting that directly tapping what you want.

Inside individual sources you have things like custom channels in Slacker/Spotify, podcasts, playlists, even now Caraoke. None of that would be manageable with physical buttons in any reasonable sense. It’s all made possible by the touch screen and software stack.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#279
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that the best selling passenger vehicles are not called "car" in the US statistics, but "light trucks". The number of light trucks sold in September 2019 is almost three times the number of "passenger cars". https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/salesfig...

I can't find the right reference, but I remember that such "light trucks" (e.g. Ford F150) enjoy a different tax and tariff compared to cars, and that's why several car companies have pushed them to the market.

It's not just F150's and other "real" trucks. Car based platforms make up the bulk of SUVs now. They are only trucks in name for the purpose of gaming fuel economy regulations. The PT Cruiser was among the first to start this trend.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#280

Tesla is almost 25% of the sales in Norway. Counting Tesla's on the road has started to become a bit silly. Just walking up to my local grocery story in Oslo, I may see 6-7 Tesla's on that short walk. I only realize how abnormal that is when it is when I travel abroad. Spent several days in London and didn't see a single Tesla. Spent a week in Spain and didn't even see an electric car at all. In Norway there are Leaf…

Having someone else to pay for a large part of your purchase is a very powerful initiative.

Yes, being allowed to dump a massive externality onto others does make cars quite a bit cheaper than if you had to pay their full cost. That's true for all cars, of course, though more for some than others.
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