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I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

nytimes.com

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Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#271

Post by lm28469 »

permatech wrote: post #219
lm28469 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you implying?

That JP is a regressive pseudo intellectual

It's quite funny because in this 2 comments lies every reasons why JP is successful. From 0 to 100 baseless personal attack, we're not even discussing facts we're discussing how you feel about people.

> pseudo intellectual

I'm afraid the burden of proof is on you for this one.

> regressive

He's pretty nuanced in fact, but you have to listen to him other than in the 30 seconds, out of context, videos being regurgitated on tweeter daily.

And again, develop, what are you talking about ? You have the right to disagree with someone but if you want to make it public you'll have to explain a bit more, we're not on Trump's tweeter here.

I'd recommend to listen to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIeFt88Hm8s

https://player.fm/series/the-jordan-b-peterson-podcast-15392...

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#272

Post by rapind »

untog wrote: post #250
50656E6973 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in silence. Historically, men have been on the receiving end of violence far, far more than women. Far more likely to be assaulted/murdered on the street, convicted for a crime they did not commit, or drafted into and killed in war.

What's your actual point here? That domestic violence shouldn't be discussed because men go to war?

I think he was rebutting the point he quoted. Don't forget jail too. There's more men on men violence (and rape) than men on women because of the horrendous prison system and how society couldn't care less.

Doesn't make either more acceptable, but it would be nice if prison violence got a little more air time.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#273

Post by L_Rahman »

rayiner wrote: post #64
jedberg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think the immigrant parents that own a Chinese restaurant open seven days a week make it to any of their kids school functions or camping trips? Are they being irreparably damaged? Based on my experience going to college with a few kids like that, yes. They all resented their childhood and the fact that the only way to see their parents was to work in the restaurant.

Yet they’re in college. Their parents having prioritized work over their kids undoubtedly will allow those kids to live an immensely better life than they would have otherwise. There’s millions of people in the world that would trade places with them in a heartbeat. One of my fears is that my kids will learn these bad American ideas from media. I saw my daughter watching a Disney show (Bunk’d), where a high achieving…

This is not black and white. If I recall correctly from other interactions we've had on Hacker News, we're both Bangladeshi-American so please know I'm looking at this with a similar lens.

My parents absolutely should have emphasized academics and my need to go to college to break out of the poverty trap my family was in. But they did that in violent and traumatic ways. They did that by using guilt and shame and burden as the primary engine to drive me to act. They are not alone in this. Friends of Asian-American heritage (East and South Asia) tell me their parents did the same.

Those things work when you're fighting for survival and then turn out to be incredibly harmful when you're not. It's taken me years of work and will take years more to undo that damage.

I understand your sensitivity to your daughter's situation. If you live in upper middle class America, and I suspect you do, your daughter is observing a deeply unnatural form of childhood. But there is a middle ground between squeezing performance out of young brains and being coddled into doing nothing. I hope for both of your sakes you look for it.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#274

Post by codesternews »

justforyou wrote: post #270
codesternews wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First It's not my thoughts and secondly Jordon has very profound deep understanding and I think I am not capable of summarising his thoughts as I am also trying to decipher and get. He is clinical physiologist and he has good depth of this kind of subject and I'm not right person to translate his views. But what I get is this "Life is sacrifice at every level (He quotes and decipher bibles story) and you have to sacr…

>> I think I am not capable of summarising his thoughts as I am also trying to decipher and get. You can't have it both ways. If you are trying to "decipher and get" his thoughts how do you know he has a "profound and deep" understanding? >> Sure you might disagree with me or him but you have your own perspective and you should decipher the meaning by yourself. This is a discussion. The above sounds like you are pros…

You can decipher and think his thoughts in two ways

1) Making sacrifice for Loved ones by giving priority to them instead of career.

2) Making sacrifice in personal lives(like children and your home duties) for greater good or humanity (giving priority to career).

Also he is saying lot of things about religious believes and stories which I am unaware of because I do not belong to same religion.

I can not make argument for you. It's very sensitive and deep topic and you should think and priorities as per your free will.

Everybody is responsible and capable of making their own decisions. We should listen to everybody but should take action as per our own beliefs and value.

Edit: I did not posted this because I am advertising him. I find it interesting and thought provoking as god(it might be made up) asks for sacrifice and we need to sacrifice to find our true-self.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#275

Post by 50656E6973 »

untog wrote: post #250
50656E6973 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in silence. Historically, men have been on the receiving end of violence far, far more than women. Far more likely to be assaulted/murdered on the street, convicted for a crime they did not commit, or drafted into and killed in war.

What's your actual point here? That domestic violence shouldn't be discussed because men go to war?

>They still suffer far more

You're creating a false dichotomy by claiming women suffer more from physical violence from men. History and context are important for understanding reality as a whole (as best as we can).

In all honesty we should be framing these issues as human problems. Creating false dichotomies, dividing men against women, and then trying to play victim olympics under false pretenses is disingenuous not helpful to humanity.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#276

Post by deanCommie »

codesternews wrote: post #192
te_chris wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re going to link a video at least summarise the arguments so we have some idea of whether it’s worth watching.

First It's not my thoughts and secondly Jordon has very profound deep understanding and I think I am not capable of summarising his thoughts as I am also trying to decipher and get. He is clinical physiologist and he has good depth of this kind of subject and I'm not right person to translate his views. But what I get is this "Life is sacrifice at every level (He quotes and decipher bibles story) and you have to sacr…

>I think I am not capable of summarising his thoughts as I am also trying to decipher and get.

If you are not able to summarize and explain someone else's point, then you don't actually grasp it intellectually. You only have a sense for it emotionally, and that is the fundamental problem with Jordan Peterson and his bread and butter. He preaches, not makes logical arguments, and is attractive to an emotional audience. Which is ironic given his premise.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#277

Post by untog »

50656E6973 wrote: post #275
untog wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your actual point here? That domestic violence shouldn't be discussed because men go to war?

>They still suffer far more You're creating a false dichotomy by claiming women suffer more from physical violence from men. History and context are important for understanding reality as a whole (as best as we can). In all honesty we should be framing these issues as human problems. Creating false dichotomies, dividing men against women, and then trying to play victim olympics under false pretenses is disingenuous n…

And you're selectively quoting me. I did not say "women suffer far more", I said "women suffer more from violence by men than vice versa". If you're going to debate a quote at least be honest about it.

Framing things as human problems is a lovely concept, but disparities exist. Ignoring them by labeling them a "false dichotomy" and talking about "victim olympics" does not help solve any issues. You can't solve an issue without identifying its causes. Otherwise we end up asking "how do we solve violence as a human problem" and guess what, nothing ever gets solved.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#278

Post by untog »

rapind wrote: post #272
untog wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your actual point here? That domestic violence shouldn't be discussed because men go to war?

I think he was rebutting the point he quoted. Don't forget jail too. There's more men on men violence (and rape) than men on women because of the horrendous prison system and how society couldn't care less. Doesn't make either more acceptable, but it would be nice if prison violence got a little more air time.

Right, but it all just ends being whataboutism. Effectively we're saying "sure, domestic violence exists, but what about prison violence? What about war?".

They're not invalid points but the effect is to grind conversation to a halt. We can talk about, and tackle prison violence. We can talk about, and tack domestic violence. But refusing to consider one until the other is also factored in just means nothing ever happens. They don't depend upon each other. We can work on both, independently.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#279

Post by dTal »

rbavocadotree wrote: post #242
dTal wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you looked at the early years of feminism, you would a similar hatred of men. Only people who have been pushed to the absolute brink are prepared to break the social taboos. The sooner the world accepts that there needs to be a conversation about equality going both ways, the sooner that anger will be defused. Arguing about who has it "worse" is probably counterproductive now. (All of this applies mainly t…

I'm not an expert in the early years of feminism, but from what I have read, this seems very wrong. The early years were about exploration and starting a conversation about what equality would look like. It was closely tied to the philosophical and social movements of the time. I doubt there was any other period in time where men and women worked so closely and cooperatively on the issue. It started as a small group…

You are right - while suffragettes could be quite violent, the violence was political and (as far as I can tell) misandry didn't hit hard until Second Wave Feminism, in the 60s-80s. But hit hard it did, and the effects reverberate today.

The point is, toxic hatred for the "other side" is a distasteful but not uncommon feature of movements in a particular stage of their existence. It doesn't invalidate their complaints.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#280

Post by ovatsug25 »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #99
tbyehl wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You will feel, at times, like you're letting down everyone equally My girlfriend struggles with that quite a bit. And now that we're fully cohabitated and my work-from-home / lack-of-commute situation allows me to participate in more kids things that aren't accomodating to parents with traditional work schedules and typical commutes... I get heaps of praise from everyone, including her, for basically just not being…

Eh, the bar is set low for men. Stick around, hold down a job, and actually parent, and you're considered amazing. It's the flip side of the "women with careers are neglecting their children" and "men at the park are paedos!" mindset. It's nice having positive feedback, but I'd prefer a society where it's unremarked upon.

Great! I find I might be in the same situation in the future. How do you do parenting around the dinner table? Heck—how do you get dinner ready for 5?! If you can, would love to hear more! :)
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