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Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop

developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop

#271

Post by tracker1 »

Hixie wrote: post #96
saagarjha wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s funny now that there’s fiber having 1GB/s internet speeds, we rant about 1MB size package. Half the people in the world probably struggle to have access to a 10 Mb/s connection. Even I go to places with connections that are tenuous at best.

(I'm the Flutter TL.) Yeah, I was just writing a design doc earlier today and my math for how big a download we could reasonably expect users to wait for was based on a 5Mbit/s download speed. Half a megabyte takes under a second at that speed, but 5 megabytes takes more like 8 seconds. That's a huge difference. In an environment like the Web, where ephemerality is the norm, you really have to stay below 1MB from wha…

Should try all your Dev and browsing on a 2gb low end Chromebook, and last gen lower end phone for a couple months. Then see how you feel about it all.

Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop

#272

Post by tracker1 »

ryandvm wrote: post #92
westoque wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the obsession with small binaries and compiled packages. I care about usability and user experience. If it takes 5mb to have a smooth experience then I’m all for it. It’s funny how we now have fiber having 1GB/s internet speeds and we rant about having 1MB size package being too big. Also, everyone’s moving to 4k now with even bigger transfer/data requirements. tldr; 1mb should be a non issue as lo…

I don't think it's the actual file sizes that people object to so much as all the redundancy and inefficiency that the bloat is indicative of. That is, for every increase in CPU, storage, and bandwidth; app developers insist on throwing it away with another layer of frameworks and intermediary libraries. What Moore's Law giveth, React/Flutter taketh away...

There are smaller/faster ready like libraries such as preact and inferno btw. React does offer a lot of advantages though mostly for diagnostic purposes for developers.

Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop

#273

Post by typeformer »

zaroth wrote: post #166
cornstalks wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow Googler here. I think it’s best to report those numbers with the appropriate SI prefix: 4.414 MB and 8.572 MB. Reporting numbers as “X thousand kilobytes” makes it harder to grok the real scale.

Pardon me making a joke at your expense cornstalks, but... Is this what a culture that AB tests 34 shades of blue looks like? I think we can handle the conversion here in the HN comment section !

Ha, at first I thought "cornstalks" was a new slang reference for Googlers and was just over my head.

Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop

#274

Post by tracker1 »

pcr0 wrote: post #150
westoque wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think Ruby/Rails is a good example of this. They maximize on developer happiness but that doesn’t stop users from using a bloated rails app. Take a look at GitHub/GitLab as an example of a Rails app I guess?

I don't see how end users suffer from using Rails. Server side rerponse time is a very small component of page load time for most websites. It's different from being forced to download and parse megabytes of JS, which consumes CPU, battery and time.

There's more CPU time across 1000 users' browsers than on the server. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to minimize your load at both ends.

Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop

#275

Post by jhasse »

chupasaurus wrote: post #207
seabrookmx wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been activity porting the Android Java components to Fuschia. I have no inside information (not a Googler) but that leads me to believe that if Fuschia becomes the next mobile OS from Google it will support both. So same goes for Android I would assume. Why does an OS need to have a single stack? You can write desktop apps in a zillion different languages and Frameworks after all.

s/Fuschia/Fuchsia/ And also it hints that you don't know what are you writing about. > You can write desktop apps in a zillion different languages and Frameworks after all. You can but the portability would be an issue. Each major OS has their own set of API/ABI, vastly different from each other, and Fuchsia isn't an exemption. You can write with QT for desktops but it wouldn't work on mobiles, you can write for Elec…

s/QT/Qt/ And also it hints that you don't know what are you writing about.

Qt works on mobile, too.

Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop

#276

Post by tracker1 »

carmate383 wrote: post #216
westoque wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the obsession with small binaries and compiled packages. I care about usability and user experience. If it takes 5mb to have a smooth experience then I’m all for it. It’s funny how we now have fiber having 1GB/s internet speeds and we rant about having 1MB size package being too big. Also, everyone’s moving to 4k now with even bigger transfer/data requirements. tldr; 1mb should be a non issue as lo…

The irony is, the same people complaining about 500kb are probably the same people using a 100MB+ terminal emulator built using a web browser (i.e. hyper).

You don't download the entire app every time you change directories like you do navigating between sites in a browser.

Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop

#277

Post by CapsAdmin »

The lack of accessibility sucks, but there's a part of me wondering why we don't have accessibility tools that don't rely on us tagging images and giving us the ability to navigate the layout of a page.

Wouldn't tools that do text and image recognition based on screen selection, arrow keys that move to the center of the nearest shape, etc. be a lot more useful? Like a Google lens for desktop.

Text selection is 100% reliable, but being able to get the text and layout from any arbitrary image and be able to navigate that would help those who struggle with vision a lot more, even if it's only 85% reliable.

Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop

#279

Post by rameshvel »

This is great news for those investing in Flutter. But from the looks of it, it seems like a Front end framework (AKA client-side rendering).

Is there a plan to implement a web framework that can render Server Side Pages. Since it's developed in Dart. Like how next.js took react and implemented an isomorphic rendering. I don't think any reason not doing it. That's a win-win.

I would really give it a shot if they can do that.

Anyone from Flutter dev got a comment??

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