Apple announces Apple Card credit card • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#271

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

beenBoutIT wrote: post #248

maxxxxx wrote: post #11

Not sure what to think of this. Somehow I would prefer if Apple kept building technology platforms that then enable other parties to develop solutions but instead they seem to be moving into a totally integrated platform. The business success is there but from a technology point of view I find Apple has been pretty unexciting over the last years. They have turned into a well run big tech company like Microsoft under…

To be fair, the guy behind all of their innovation died more than a decade ago.

I don't think it's fair say that.

Jobs had an unparalleled way of steering that innovation into productive avenues. He always had his Wozzes, though.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#272

Post by jonknee » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #200

https://www.economist.com/business/2017/10/28/apple-should-s... (2017) 'The world’s biggest firm has a financial arm half the size of Goldman Sachs' '...Apple says that its “value-at-risk” (VAR), a statistical measure of the maximum likely loss in an average day, is $434m. That is huge: similar to the combined VAR of the world’s top ten investment banks. In theory losses on derivatives would be offset by gains in the…

What's your point with this outdated article? Tons of companies have branded credit cards, it does not mean they have the credit risk. That's what Goldman is for in this situation.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#273

Post by morpheuskafka » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

> I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing.

You mean big entities like transnational banks and payment networks?

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#274

Post by Liquix » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

eridius wrote: post #213

throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

Apple said they've engineered the service such that Apple does not know what you're purchasing or even what vendors you're shopping at. If Apple doesn't know this, they can't very well apply arbitrary rules to it.

What do they gain from offering the card if they are not harvesting transaction data? Is it possible that this is some legal gymnastics (i.e. Goldman-Sachs receives the 'Apple doesn't know' data and promptly send it over to them under an opaque 'we share information with our affiliates' clause)?

It does seem like a lot of work and potential risk if the sole purpose is to increase user dependency on the Apple ecosystem.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#275

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

pageandrew wrote: post #52

netsharc wrote: post #48

I remember reading an article a few years ago that said Apple has so much money overseas, the most logical thing they can do is to start a bank. Can't find it atm (I'm on mobile). But maybe that has changed after the GOP's tax law changes.

They aren't starting a bank. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs and is on the MasterCard network.

[deleted]

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#276

Post by caprese » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

isostatic wrote: post #250

throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

It's an inevitable end state of capitalism - large companies merge and use monopolitic tactics up and down the chain. That's why we have democratically accountable regulators

> democratically accountable regulators

do you write for the onion?

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#277

Post by lawn » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

ralusek wrote: post #189

throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

Look no further than the recent issue where Patreon competitor Subscribestar had payment processors Stripe and PayPal stop processing their payments for _political_ disagreements with the purported beneficiaries of the donations through the platform. PayPal said that it was actually one of the underlying payment processors, and it was suspected to be MasterCard. That incident was the first time I've ever taken the ne…

And people still wonder what problem cryptocurrencies tries to solve.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#278

Post by djmobley » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

simonbarker87 wrote: post #256

bk_mtn_man wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't live in a tech hub city but in all my shopping I have never seen anyone use one of the Apple/Samsung payment methods where I live. Even when I spent months in Silicon Valley I can count the number of times I saw it used on one hand.

We are pretty much at 100% here in the UK. I was in a little village deep in a national park over the weekend (North Wales) and used Apple Pay most of the time.

I would say contactless card payments in general are very popular in the UK, but seeing people use Apple Pay (much less Android Pay) is something of a novelty.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#279

Post by deepGem » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

zaphirplane wrote: post #231

eridius wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple said they've engineered the service such that Apple does not know what you're purchasing or even what vendors you're shopping at. If Apple doesn't know this, they can't very well apply arbitrary rules to it.

I wonder how you can challenge a fraudulent transaction when that information is missing

They said that the information is on your device, not on Apple servers. So I presume that they/GS can extract this information from the device under a valid legal claim.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#280

Post by freeone3000 » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

Liquix wrote: post #274

eridius wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple said they've engineered the service such that Apple does not know what you're purchasing or even what vendors you're shopping at. If Apple doesn't know this, they can't very well apply arbitrary rules to it.

What do they gain from offering the card if they are not harvesting transaction data? Is it possible that this is some legal gymnastics (i.e. Goldman-Sachs receives the 'Apple doesn't know' data and promptly send it over to them under an opaque 'we share information with our affiliates' clause)? It does seem like a lot of work and potential risk if the sole purpose is to increase user dependency on the Apple ecosyste…

They save merchant fees when the card is used on their products, and collect them when the card is used elsewhere. Same reason your bank issues a card, really. Though mastercard's still the payment processor here.