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NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

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Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#271
post #32

1) Incentives are not given up front. They are given proportional to the results Amazon has achieved. Amazon must make a report each year detailing their progress before any award is given. 2) The city-level incentives are available to any business. State-level incentives (I think 300m) are not. 3) Amazon has pledged to invest in the local community as part of the deal. There are plans for an elementary school and te…

> Please tell me what about this is bad.

Opportunity costs?

You list several benefits, but benefits don't tell us where a choice ranks in the list of possible alternatives.

For example, the alternative where we get all those benefits, but where there weren't any incentives at all, seems strictly better. Why not that?

You'd probably protest that it's not realistic. We can't get there in the current system, where powerful companies can play states and municipalities off of each other and require the best incentives before they are willing to make any useful choices.

But a lot of us think that system sucks.

When the powerful have opportunities to rewrite local policies on the fly, it doesn't feel right. Doesn't matter how many benefits there are.

This isn't a new or irrational ideal. Much of the Western canon on governance obsesses about the importance of the rule of law: the idea that the laws should apply to commoners and kings (or powerful companies) equally.

It's a principle a lot of people hold very dearly, and are unwilling to sacrifice for a few temporary benefits that we might have been able to achieve anyway, if we just had a better system in place in advance.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#272
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're literally giving New York tax money to the richest man in the world, who lives somewhere else, instead of spending it on the subway, or parks, or schools, or literally anything. If you're not outraged you're not paying attention. As it happens I don't have a Silicon Valley venture backed profitless startup, I have a company that gets paid money to do work and makes a healthy profit. I've paid very considerable…

Richard Wolff in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTth4Rb25H4 does a good job of concisely making the points on just how bad a deal this is for New York and Virginia (which are together funding over half of the costs of this project -- $5.5B versus Amazon's $5B according to the New York Times) -- and all for an estimated 2,500 jobs in New York. Here's what he said: This is a shocking display. What they are calling a g…

Fascinating link. In it, Amazon lists the FAA first in its list of access to key stakeholders.

They must be really serious about drone delivery...

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#273
Amazon helps us to get goods but we need best reviews. I recently came across BestBabysupport (https://bestbabysupport.com), which includes nice reviews of, say, different car seats or different strollers, and can let you know which one is a good. Every mother dreams that her child will grow up healthy and strong. But while this is only a dream you must take care that your kid has the right stroller. And what a happiness is to realize that your child is comfortable in the stroller that you have chosen for him.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#274
post #32

1) Incentives are not given up front. They are given proportional to the results Amazon has achieved. Amazon must make a report each year detailing their progress before any award is given. 2) The city-level incentives are available to any business. State-level incentives (I think 300m) are not. 3) Amazon has pledged to invest in the local community as part of the deal. There are plans for an elementary school and te…

It’s really cool how Amazon has hundreds of cities up in arms bidding just to give Long Island such a great deal. /s I have little trust in city officials and corporations to be forthright about the deal. The bidding process is hidden and full details are slow to come out to protect the deal. Payouts to corporations has been a pattern and it should be fixed at the federal level. Companies don’t make a bidding war to…

It’s not In Long Island. It’s Long Island City, which is in Queens, which is next to Long Island.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does if you want their business. You made a statement, you didn't say why it was bad.

You need to be explained why $1.5B in public assistance to a trillion dollar ($700B+ today it seems) company is bad? I'll try. It distorts the competition, ESPECIALLY in the case of Amazon which more or less competes with every retailer everywhere. It sets a bad precedent (yes, yes, water under the bridge) of big corporations expecting these benefits any time they feel like moving around. NYC has better uses for the…

"It sets a bad precedent (yes, yes, water under the bridge) of big corporations expecting these benefits any time they feel like moving around."

Absolutely incorrect. It's been like this for decades, is essentially universal, and this is barely egregious in comparison to past incentive packages. NoVA and NYC weren't even the largest incentive packages offered for HQ2.

https://info.siteselectiongroup.com/blog/top-10-economic-inc...

https://info.siteselectiongroup.com/blog/top-25-economic-inc...

https://info.siteselectiongroup.com/blog/top-25-economic-inc...

https://info.siteselectiongroup.com/blog/top-economic-incent...

https://info.siteselectiongroup.com/blog/largest-economic-in...

https://info.siteselectiongroup.com/blog/largest-economic-in...

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech might not have been kind to the cities of SF and Seattle sure, but tech built the greater metropolitan regions of both of these areas, where Seattle metro's population has doubled as a result of the tech boom since 1980, and the bay area's population has grown by ~70% in the same time frame, for reference, this isn't that far off from the nominal growth seen in greater Los Angeles during the same period.

Seattle was created to supply the Yukon gold rush miners. Then it was heavily dependent on Weyerhauser (lumber). Then it was Boeing (will the last person who leaves Seattle please turn out the lights.) Now tech. Seattle's always been a one horse economy. (Something like 15% of workers in Seattle are Amazonians.)

Can you provide a source on the 15% number? Is that 15% of all employed people or just in a specific sector. If it is a specific sector how is that defined?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They could have set up in the midwest, paid everyone 75% as much as the going rate in NY or silicon valley, and the employees would have 50% more expendable income than they are used to. This wasn't for the employees. SDE's in Detroit, Madison, and Twin Cities are paid exactly the same as the SDEs in Seattle.

That is hardly true except for a small select few. Where are you getting your numbers?

I'm an Amazon new grad. We only have 2 standard salary bands in the US - one for premium regions and one for everywhere else. I know this only because I explicitly asked recruiting and they brought it up in the midpoint intern brown-bag.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They could have set up in the midwest, paid everyone 75% as much as the going rate in NY or silicon valley, and the employees would have 50% more expendable income than they are used to. This wasn't for the employees. SDE's in Detroit, Madison, and Twin Cities are paid exactly the same as the SDEs in Seattle.

They will match Facebook/Microsoft/Amazon/Google's 110k salary + bonus + stock that you can get in Seattle (As a college grad)? Even smaller firms are giving away jobs for 150k salary for just a couple years of experience.

I'm talking specifically about Amazon, which has a presence in all 3 of the cities I mentioned. Also yes, $145.5k total compensation at Amazon with a Bachelors (I'm not sure if this is competitive though)

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#280
post #32

1) Incentives are not given up front. They are given proportional to the results Amazon has achieved. Amazon must make a report each year detailing their progress before any award is given. 2) The city-level incentives are available to any business. State-level incentives (I think 300m) are not. 3) Amazon has pledged to invest in the local community as part of the deal. There are plans for an elementary school and te…

> Please tell me what about this is bad. Opportunity costs? You list several benefits, but benefits don't tell us where a choice ranks in the list of possible alternatives. For example, the alternative where we get all those benefits, but where there weren't any incentives at all, seems strictly better. Why not that? You'd probably protest that it's not realistic. We can't get there in the current system, where power…

Do you buy things on Amazon?
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