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You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

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Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#271

Post by whorleater »

EpicEng wrote: post #234
whorleater wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Employers make up to min wage if you don't get tipped enough" is the biggest joke, because if you don't get enough tips by the end of the night a few times, employers will often slowly push you out by only offering you unfavorable shifts, or outright fire you in states with poor labor protections.

>employers will often slowly push you out by only offering you unfavorable shifts, or outright fire you in states with poor labor protections. In other words; if you're bad at your job, you probably won't have it for very long. Yeah, well no crap.

This is a weird just world view though, because tips are a lagging indicator of job performance more than anything. If you accept the notion that you get tipped less because you are a poor job performer, what is the point of laws that force employers to make up your wages to minimum wage?

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#272

Post by pkaye »

ghaff wrote: post #248
thaumaturgy wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I accept it as a tax on eating out. I'm highlighting this part because it's one of the main contributing factors to dining out less and less, for me, and that includes coffee shops. I always tip well when going out; ergo, I don't go out as often. Going off of the "I'm not very unique" rule of thumb, businesses are losing some amount of money because of tipping culture.

>businesses are losing some amount of money because of tipping culture Only in the most trivial sense that people know that, between sales tax and tipping, they're going to be paying a price that's 25-30% more than what's printed on the menu. And most people have some degree of price elasticity. But I honestly can't imagine it matters much whether those adders are folded into the price up-front or you just know that…

Apparently it does make a difference or restaurants would have just raised their prices and incorporated the tips.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#273

Post by function_seven »

tptacek wrote: post #258
jasode wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US tipping is not complicated. [...] just always tip. Anywhere there's a tip line. Well, it's been too complicated for me because the comments in this thread show I've been doing it wrong. For example, I sometimes picked up "to go" orders from Chili's restaurant[1]. In my mind, if I sat down to eat, I tipped the server. On the other hand, if I phoned in an order and picked it up, I didn't tip . Yes, I noticed that…

You want to feel real great? Here's a question: do you always tip your hotel housekeeping? It's gotten harder over the last 10 years since we're carrying so much less cash, and there's no tip line on the hotel bill. But you are hella expected to tip housekeeping: that is a rough job, and a very poorly treated workforce.

I recently stayed in a hotel where I realized I didn't have any cash on me. I just hung the DND sign on the door and handled my own housekeeping.

Still felt bad when I checked out and still didn't have anything to leave.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#274

Post by tyfon »

spdionis wrote: post #56
Balgair wrote: post #39

The 'politics' of tipping aside, one thing that really grinds my gears is that they calculate the tip after taxes are applied. I feel that the tips should be calculated based on the exchange I had with the establishment/person and that the taxes should considered separate from our interaction. Like, here's the 20% tip on the 100$ I spent. Not, here's the 20% tip on the $100 + 5% tax, $105 total. I know why they do th…

Isn't the problem the other way around? In Europe taxes are included in the price from the start.

Also, at least here in Norway, the service workers have to pay taxes on the tips. How does this work in other countries? It it just a way to dodge taxes for the owners?

Minimum wage laws also applies to the pre-tip salary so it's not really expected most places unless you get exceptional service. I've never seen "pre-calculated" tips either here or elsewhere in Europe.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#275

Post by ghaff »

pkaye wrote: post #272
ghaff wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>businesses are losing some amount of money because of tipping culture Only in the most trivial sense that people know that, between sales tax and tipping, they're going to be paying a price that's 25-30% more than what's printed on the menu. And most people have some degree of price elasticity. But I honestly can't imagine it matters much whether those adders are folded into the price up-front or you just know that…

Apparently it does make a difference or restaurants would have just raised their prices and incorporated the tips.

Path dependence. The problem is that, if just one restaurant does it, a lot of people see the higher prices and don't realize a service charge and sales tax is included at that one particular restaurant. It's not unheard of to do but it's very uncommon and mostly doesn't work out well. (Plus both waiters and customers are mostly just used to the current system.)

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#276

Post by CharlesW »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #249
miketery wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been struggling with this for a while and you put it really well. However it frustrates me to no end, that customers are expected to do compensation sharing with the employer. The nefarious thing about this is that the employer has put the negotiating for fair wages between the customer and employees instead of between the employees and the employer. End of the day its manageable as you say, just price in the ti…

>> However it frustrates me to no end, that customers are expected to do compensation sharing with the employer A debate, perhaps worth having. Meanwhile your server makes less than minimum wage because tips are expected to fill in the gap. A while back it was $2.13 an hour. Not giving him a tip is only going to ruin his day, not start a revolution. As of right now, the chicken dish cost $16 plus an unofficial but ex…

> I don't tip 20% when I grab a coffee at Dunkin.

Why not? Not a critique, just curious about your rationale when you note that "tips are expected to fill in the gap".

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#277

Post by threatofrain »

scroot wrote: post #253
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also on that page: >If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour during any week, the employer is required to increase cash wages to compensate

Do you think in a real workplace people are going to constantly bring this up with their managers?

I think what happens in a real restaurant that doesn't share tips is that if you don't make enough you'll just be let go.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#278

Post by ghaff »

IshKebab wrote: post #259
ghaff wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK may be one of the most potentially confusing places. Some places where a waiter takes your order include "optional" service charges and others don't. And, of the ones that don't, some prompt you to add a tip on the PoS terminal and others don't.

It's not really confusing. Basically, don't tip anywhere except restaurants with table service where you pay at the table after the food. Then it is 10% (unless they did particularly good or bad service). Pay at the bar before receiving food? Don't tip. Buying drinks at a bar? Don't tip. Ordering an Uber? Don't tip. Etc.

Yes, but you're only given the opportunity to add a tip to your credit card some of the time even when a service charge isn't added. I guess you're expected to leave some cash in that case.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#279

Post by goostavos »

acchow wrote: post #141
kbumsik wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly in Korea too. Tipping is often considered as if a generous rich guy throws their money to a poor man with sympathy. I think tipping is very rare in most of asian countries.

It used to be this way. But American tourism has spread tipping to many countries.

Our worst export, surely.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#280

Post by ballenf »

tptacek wrote: post #209

Hacker News threads about tipping are always rough. US tipping is not complicated. You are being asked to share with a service worker's employer some of the burden of compensating them. The notion that you're rewarding exceptional service is a polite fiction. Depending on where you are, the tip is either expected or it isn't. Unfortunately for the mindset of a typical software developer, there won't be much clarity o…

Just like internet discourse would improve if people refrained from typing what they wouldn't say to someone's face, these tipping issues would be practically nonexistent if the owners tried to force workers to verbally request a tip after handing over a muffin.

To me, these tip requests deserve as much respect as the old inner city window washer routines[1]. They are insulting and show a complete lack of respect for the customer who chose your shop to spend their time and money.

[1] Edit: or any aggressive panhandling.

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